[freonrick]

there is also a software upgrade that must be done to accept the changes made. Just finished one this week that still had the orginal compressors in them.

 

[refrtech]

I love the arguement " They are just junk ! " . THEY ARE NOT JUNK !!! If the ALS A & B vintage's are PROPPERLY maintained by a QUALLIFIED technician who knows what he is doing the compressors have no issues . The problems come in when a technician is working on it and treats it like any other screw chiller out there . IT'S NOT !! They are extremely easy to tear up if they are not maintained propperly . I have many ALS A&B vintage chillers under contract from the early 1990's that still have the original compressors in them . I have also replaced probobally 100 of these compressors over the past 4 years and I always open up the gate cover and check for oil . I would say like 90% of the time they are bone dry . Then I start looking around the chiller and most of the time will find numerous oil spots from previous refrigerant leaks !! HMMM I wonder why the compressor died !! Or you hear " This compressor is almost brand new. " This is an automatic red flag because if it has been replaced then where is the gate material from the compressor that went bad ???

Once an ALS A or B vintage is converted to a " C " vintage by adding the oil seperator and soft starter upgrades then I can almost guarentee that you will NEVER have any more compressor issues , even if you have no clue on what you are doing with that chiller . I have replaced 2 ALS C vintage compressors over the past 4 years . I would put the same POS compressor up against any other screw out there as long as it has the oil seperator ! They are for the most part bullet proof !!!

 

[screwed548]

I love the arguement " They are just junk ! " . THEY ARE NOT JUNK !!! If the ALS A & B vintage's are PROPPERLY maintained by a QUALLIFIED technician who knows what he is doing the compressors have no issues . The problems come in when a technician is working on it and treats it like any other screw chiller out there . IT'S NOT !! They are extremely easy to tear up if they are not maintained propperly . I have many ALS A&B vintage chillers under contract from the early 1990's that still have the original compressors in them . I have also replaced probobally 100 of these compressors over the past 4 years and I always open up the gate cover and check for oil . I would say like 90% of the time they are bone dry . Then I start looking around the chiller and most of the time will find numerous oil spots from previous refrigerant leaks !! HMMM I wonder why the compressor died !! Or you hear " This compressor is almost brand new. " This is an automatic red flag because if it has been replaced then where is the gate material from the compressor that went bad ???

Once an ALS A or B vintage is converted to a " C " vintage by adding the oil seperator and soft starter upgrades then I can almost guarentee that you will NEVER have any more compressor issues , even if you have no clue on what you are doing with that chiller . I have replaced 2 ALS C vintage compressors over the past 4 years . I would put the same POS compressor up against any other screw out there as long as it has the oil seperator ! They are for the most part bullet proof !!!

Could not have said it better myself! You guys out there that want to argue this need to understand the real issues before popping off and showing your lack of knowledge on the subject. It never ceases to amaze me how much someone seems to think they know. Facts do not lie and knowing the facts will set you free, or in this case teach you guys something.

 

[absrbrtek]

LOL, the three of you bit on this.

Could not have said it better myself! You guys out there that want to argue this need to understand the real issues before popping off and showing your lack of knowledge on the subject. It never ceases to amaze me how much someone seems to think they know. Facts do not lie and knowing the facts will set you free, or in this case teach you guys something.

 

[stickerhead]

We just took care of the problems with ALS compressors sucessfully about two years ago. We pulled out the ALS compressors, replaced them with Hanbell screws and installed a MCS control panel. Three year warranty on the compressors and controls to boot! I agree the CEK kits made a difference on reliablity but to me, it is a patch.

 

[screwed548]

We just took care of the problems with ALS compressors sucessfully about two years ago. We pulled out the ALS compressors, replaced them with Hanbell screws and installed a MCS control panel. Three year warranty on the compressors and controls to boot! I agree the CEK kits made a difference on reliablity but to me, it is a patch.

Yep sounds like to me another misinformed decision that cost the owner as much or more than the McQuay factory backed, engineered, warranted, performance certified option. Yep, just another misinformed contractor ripping off his customer. Did all this retrofit work done this way have hard, up front performance and energy data prior to doing the work? I think not, hence you ripped the customer off!

 

[absrbrtek]

I can garrauntee it cost less than than the McQ repairs would have been and performed just as well if not better. The MCS controller is a very nice product along with the Hanbel screws. Is McQuay going to give you a 3 year warranty?

Yep sounds like to me another misinformed decision that cost the owner as much or more than the McQuay factory backed, engineered, warranted, performance certified option. Yep, just another misinformed contractor ripping off his customer. Did all this retrofit work done this way have hard, up front performance and energy data prior to doing the work? I think not, hence you ripped the customer off!

 

[chiller32]

I can garrauntee it cost less than than the McQ repairs would have been and performed just as well if not better. The MCS controller is a very nice product along with the Hanbel screws. Is McQuay going to give you a 3 year warranty?

The second you modify that McQuay chiller YOU own it. It no longer has any manufacture testing or backing behind it, The standards this machine was built to and certified at are not valid anymore. Mr. Customer you deserve exactly what you get an untested and unproven chiller half-ass designed by some mavrick HVAC technician/contractor. If the contractor/technician really knew what he was doing he could have done the CEK upgrade himself. I'm positive it would have been much cheaper and less time consuming then this modification was. Not to mention it would still be a McQuay Chiller which case any HVAC service company could come in and service if this contractor and customer ever parted. But do whatever you want its your money and it will be your problem if anything goes wrong.

 

[screwed548]

I can garrauntee it cost less than than the McQ repairs would have been and performed just as well if not better. The MCS controller is a very nice product along with the Hanbel screws. Is McQuay going to give you a 3 year warranty?

Money and performance numbers talk, BS walks. Show me the numbers or shut up!

 

[absrbrtek]

Wow, you McQuay guys are really touchy about this chiller issue. So someone found a way of bypassing the mandatory use of the factory to get the job done, deal with it. Bet this really gets your panties in a knot!!! JMHO

Money and performance numbers talk, BS walks. Show me the numbers or shut up!

 

[chiller32]

Wow, you McQuay guys are really touchy about this chiller issue. So someone found a way of bypassing the mandatory use of the factory to get the job done, deal with it. Bet this really gets your panties in a knot!!! JMHO

This issue is not a McQuay issue, it a industry issue. Any time a technician that does not represent the factory takes it upon himself to modify a chiller to the extent that this one was he is put him and the customer at risk. I would love to talk to the city and state inspector about any safety ratings this chiller "had" I.E. UL, ISO, NEMA, pressure vessel
and see if they would even allow this chiller to run in their juridiction. This guy didn't repair or retrofit a chiller he built a new chiller with old and new parts. Where is the testing ? where is the safety standards? Who is going to be responsible if this new chiller blows up? I would bet money this contractor didn't pull a permit on this job.

You really want to do this work fine just do it right! research the CEK find out what its all about and do the work yourself. Stop hacking **** up and claiming the unit is a pos because you don't understand it.

 

[screwed548]

Wow, you McQuay guys are really touchy about this chiller issue. So someone found a way of bypassing the mandatory use of the factory to get the job done, deal with it. Bet this really gets your panties in a knot!!! JMHO

OK so answer the questions...............or maybe you can't. If you can't answer the questions or back up your statements with real data stop your soapboxing rhetoric.

 

[cntrlvalchiller]

Can't sit on the fence any longer. Just my experience with these machines .being a unqualified contractor as you guys would put it. But I find it very funny working on a variety of screw machines to include early vintage als where we were there as a contractor due to factory rep. not performing and customers asking for the dumb contractor instead of local factory reps. but when the ALS units first came out we asked about various things such as oil seperators, soft starters,better fan staging ie 1/2 pitch fans or vfd's on 1st fan staging to only say its not needed with our units yet low and behold multiple comp. failures. Then wow they introduce CEK kits (soft starters and some re-piping ) but it was no needed on a positive displacement compressor that had a (for sake of agurement) a spring washer in the gate rotors for any liquid that may ahve been present. then under vibration analysis with specified meter and upon drier inspection due to high delta p finding waffling that was aluminum and again consulting factory. oh thats sacraficitial metal yea right swallow that then ensuing comp failure then seeing at the factory that these comps.are of the utmost complexity yet seeing at the factory that they were being assembled with cresent wrenches at a point come-on guys. Then now seeing ags units with soft starters vfds on cond fans oil seperators and discharge checks but they were not required and were the dumb contractor remember.

 

[bobby m]

100 screw compressors in 4 years?,maybe it's time to find a new job or start pricing wheelchairs.

 

[refrtech]

100 screw compressors in 4 years?,maybe it's time to find a new job or start pricing wheelchairs.

Hey I am always up for something new . Are you going to train me on how to sell wheelchairs ?

 

[emcoasthvacr]

Mcquay does have very respectable design literature

I don't want to pile on too much on Mcquay. I have to admit the company has very respectable design literature for designing chiller plants.

 

[knightheating]

You have a bad compressor,replace it

 

[hvacdoctor]

Man I love this Post. Not to mention the procedure for testing oil is something that 99.4% OF HIGHLY QUALIFIED TECHS DONT KNOW HOW TO DO. I asked 6 highly regarded techs I know how they would test oil or check it or take a sample of it.....low and behold I showed them a Mcquay ALS and they all had a look of WTF are you talking about. So keep all your secrets under lock and key while the business goes to the vendors who support there products, provide USEFUL data about them, not IOM's that dont mean a thing or have any use when your chiller is down and its 96F out side!

Can't sit on the fence any longer. Just my experience with these machines .being a unqualified contractor as you guys would put it. But I find it very funny working on a variety of screw machines to include early vintage als where we were there as a contractor due to factory rep. not performing and customers asking for the dumb contractor instead of local factory reps. but when the ALS units first came out we asked about various things such as oil seperators, soft starters,better fan staging ie 1/2 pitch fans or vfd's on 1st fan staging to only say its not needed with our units yet low and behold multiple comp. failures. Then wow they introduce CEK kits (soft starters and some re-piping ) but it was no needed on a positive displacement compressor that had a (for sake of agurement) a spring washer in the gate rotors for any liquid that may ahve been present. then under vibration analysis with specified meter and upon drier inspection due to high delta p finding waffling that was aluminum and again consulting factory. oh thats sacraficitial metal yea right swallow that then ensuing comp failure then seeing at the factory that these comps.are of the utmost complexity yet seeing at the factory that they were being assembled with cresent wrenches at a point come-on guys. Then now seeing ags units with soft starters vfds on cond fans oil seperators and discharge checks but they were not required and were the dumb contractor remember.