anyone have any recommendations for a residential wine celler unit?
The rooms is 9x9 x9' ceiling.
The rooms is 9x9 x9' ceiling.
wine cellar
coolmen
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
The linset is about 15 feet long making a lazy rise of about 3 feet to the condenser. Unfortunately there was only about 8" max behind the unit, so I installed flair fittings on linset and unit during rough-in and I had to cut out my access twice! the wafer board at rough-in and the Sheetrock at trim. I have 6"x24" to access the back of the unit 9' off the floor. The evaporator itself has 3" on the right where the access panel is and 2" above.
Oh, the superheat was measured on the roof three feet from the service fitting on the condenser. I went ahead and added another service fitting as close as possible to wall where the lineset exits. Mainly so you could connect without having to open the cover and cracking the valve. not that it would make much difference in measurements.
Oh, the superheat was measured on the roof three feet from the service fitting on the condenser. I went ahead and added another service fitting as close as possible to wall where the lineset exits. Mainly so you could connect without having to open the cover and cracking the valve. not that it would make much difference in measurements.
Because of my ignorance, I have this thing going in two different threads and the facts about the system and the info I have given are incomplete unless you see both threads. If you're in Ref. & Ice Making, wine cellar, look at Tech to Tech chat - commercial, wine room WhisperKool... and vice-versa. Or, I just figured out, just put Kemp in the main forums search.
The off the shelf ones that you are talking about are when they take a usually Goodman mini- split evap with TEV, and controlled by ETC and used with refrigeration condenser and cover.... And they never seem to have an issue, on larger ones they will use a low profile ceiling mounted evap with a speed control for the fans and the rest as I described above. Never any real issues with these set ups.
I may be off base but I believe this is what you were wanting to know..
Hope this helps any other questions feel free to ask, as you have helped me out in the past
The specs for a WhisperKool 8000 are a Google away. There ain't no speed control and there is only one fan.
If the water wasn't near my chin, I wouldn't have bothered posting.
Do you have any constructive advice? I mean really?
On all of these small split type wine coolers, breezeair, whisperkool I have never set the superheat or even bother with it. I check for a good & cold discard temperature based on the ability of the installation, size of the box and, especially, the structure of the box and let it go.
Then I wait about 2 to 3 years for the little compressor to burn up. Can't remember the manufacture of the typical compressor on these systems but they are made in Germany. Once they burn up I remove the factory condensing unit and replace it with a commercial brand condensing unit and have had very little problems. I also make sure the condenser fan has a pressure control to keep the head as close to normal as possible which is ofter overlooked in these types on bolt on installations.
Then I wait about 2 to 3 years for the little compressor to burn up. Can't remember the manufacture of the typical compressor on these systems but they are made in Germany. Once they burn up I remove the factory condensing unit and replace it with a commercial brand condensing unit and have had very little problems. I also make sure the condenser fan has a pressure control to keep the head as close to normal as possible which is ofter overlooked in these types on bolt on installations.
I have lots , but if you are gonna be a smart ass , then good luck. I've built and designed several wine rooms....
Wish ya the best
R-134A. This system does have a low ambient control which is just a pressure differential condenser fan control. set for 170 psi cut in with 70 psi differential. Checked with dry nitrogen during install as per factory de-structions.
I think it is working perfectly. I just wanted to make sure the homeowner gets their warranty from WhisperKool.
Sorry for the attitude, but "no disrespect... but you're in over your head" is disrespectful! So I replied in kind! Now lets both make nice! And get back to refrigeration.
Just seen what you posted, pressing on...
I'm heading out for awhile , did you get the info you needed yet or do you still need help ???
Did you get your SC. Dialed back. Yet.
Sorry to get back to you so late be it's been extremely busy
Let me know
"Did you get your SC. Dialed back. Yet." Yes.
The job is 70mi. away and was under construction. My previous trip was Nov. 4 when I had to make my own door for the room with 2" rigid foam just to get started. The homeowner installed her stainless steel racks with 20K worth of wine and fired up the system which immediately froze up the evap. Now on Dec. it's an emergency! even though my boss, the general contractor, and the homeowner, were all told the wine room was not ready.
It took half a day to access the TXV
I just lost 20 minutes of typing critical info about the system. I'll log out, compose then cut and paste. I guess "quick reply" means loose lots of time if you're not quick.
The job is 70mi. away and was under construction. My previous trip was Nov. 4 when I had to make my own door for the room with 2" rigid foam just to get started. The homeowner installed her stainless steel racks with 20K worth of wine and fired up the system which immediately froze up the evap. Now on Dec. it's an emergency! even though my boss, the general contractor, and the homeowner, were all told the wine room was not ready.
It took half a day to access the TXV
I just lost 20 minutes of typing critical info about the system. I'll log out, compose then cut and paste. I guess "quick reply" means loose lots of time if you're not quick.
OK I'm waiting on ya
Making the evaporator inaccessible is a mistake as over time as it will need access for cleaning and servicing. No way around dialing in SH as well. If the system wasn't fully commissioned I would not have left it in a state that the HO could run it. Do not adjust your SH until you are at temp. usually mid-fifties. Did the system have a clear SG when you left it? Indoor or outdoor CU? what was the suction pressure after u charged it? What is the SH?
What coolwine said. There is no wine cooler evaporator on the market that can properly cool and be serviced if it is remote. Some manufacturers made a few but they will not work properly. You problem is starting to sound more like a design problem more than anything else.
And it's possible to have frozen some of those bottles of wine which would have ruined them not to mention splitting the bottles open. What ever reason the wine can not be allowed to even get near freezing temperatures.
Initial charging: I weighed in 3lbs liquid by vacuum alone before starting the condenser as per specs. I then flipped the tank and continued to add refrigerant in small amts. until the sight glass was clear. Unfortunately I had turned off the scale, so I don't know exactly how much was added, but it was very little as the pressure differential was only a few pounds.
The evap was left unplugged, next time I'll be sure the condensing unit is off as well, and actually it may well have been, but there are two electricians and the sound guy there almost daily.
Once we were able to access the tev, I blocked the condenser as per their warranty checklist. My gauges are r22/410a scale not 134a. Will take and older r12/22 set next time for a better scale.
With blockage: hi 200# ~ 130deg. - 120deg. for 10SC, Lo 30# ~ 35deg & 43 measured for about 8SH. Amb. 50, Bottle probe 56 (target 55),
Much better than previous trip that gave 18 to even 30deg. SC and 4 to zero SH
That was about noon, I have a whole page of readings about every 30 minutes after every change. The last reading was about 3PM,
Still blocked:
TXV at 1.25 turns clockwise, Hi 180# ~120deg. - 112, 8deg. SC; Lo 25-28# ~ 31deg. & 38 to 42 for 7 to 11deg. SH. Amb 44, Box actually down to 50 but bottle probe still 56. Evap entering 54 & exiting 50. WB 46
Now as soon as the blockage is removed, the low ambient cycles the fan and SH goes to 4 to zero and head p drops as low as 80. The factory setting is 170 cut-in with 70 dif. = cut out at 100. They state that the desired pressures are 175 Hi and 28 Lo.
Why is the factory setting 170 when they want to maintain 175? And get this! Technical support had me install a 100 watt light bulb controlled by an 80$ remote bulb Johnson control to help maintain head pressure! (this was what they told the homeowner, so I had to do it) - might help melt the snow!
I had to leave the blockage when I left last Friday as a temporary measure. Now, my idea is to adjust the low ambient to about 210 or 220 cut in, that would leave the cut out at 140, 150
Questions: Am I getting there? How many turns is too many turns to adjust this unknown TXV? What are suggested low ambient cut in and differential settings?
Thanks, Kemp
The evap was left unplugged, next time I'll be sure the condensing unit is off as well, and actually it may well have been, but there are two electricians and the sound guy there almost daily.
Once we were able to access the tev, I blocked the condenser as per their warranty checklist. My gauges are r22/410a scale not 134a. Will take and older r12/22 set next time for a better scale.
With blockage: hi 200# ~ 130deg. - 120deg. for 10SC, Lo 30# ~ 35deg & 43 measured for about 8SH. Amb. 50, Bottle probe 56 (target 55),
Much better than previous trip that gave 18 to even 30deg. SC and 4 to zero SH
That was about noon, I have a whole page of readings about every 30 minutes after every change. The last reading was about 3PM,
Still blocked:
TXV at 1.25 turns clockwise, Hi 180# ~120deg. - 112, 8deg. SC; Lo 25-28# ~ 31deg. & 38 to 42 for 7 to 11deg. SH. Amb 44, Box actually down to 50 but bottle probe still 56. Evap entering 54 & exiting 50. WB 46
Now as soon as the blockage is removed, the low ambient cycles the fan and SH goes to 4 to zero and head p drops as low as 80. The factory setting is 170 cut-in with 70 dif. = cut out at 100. They state that the desired pressures are 175 Hi and 28 Lo.
Why is the factory setting 170 when they want to maintain 175? And get this! Technical support had me install a 100 watt light bulb controlled by an 80$ remote bulb Johnson control to help maintain head pressure! (this was what they told the homeowner, so I had to do it) - might help melt the snow!
I had to leave the blockage when I left last Friday as a temporary measure. Now, my idea is to adjust the low ambient to about 210 or 220 cut in, that would leave the cut out at 140, 150
Questions: Am I getting there? How many turns is too many turns to adjust this unknown TXV? What are suggested low ambient cut in and differential settings?
Thanks, Kemp
Another tad of info. The condensing unit is above the evaporator about 3 to 4 feet and the lineset is about 14 feet long making a long lazy curve continually up with no slope towards the condenser and no dips. Their diagram shows an inverted p-trap installed if the cond. is greater than 3' above the evap. then slope to condenser, but it is a straight vertical rise. What is the purpose of the inverted p-trap? My learnin' tells me a p-trap in normal position is to prevent oil slugging.
They want crankcase temperature on the warranty check list saying 100 to 110 is low and a possible sign of liquid entering the compressor. With blockage, it was 118 max. Remember ambient was 44, is this a problem?
Also, it only takes about a minute, two at most, for the low ambient control to cycle.
Thanks, Kemp
They want crankcase temperature on the warranty check list saying 100 to 110 is low and a possible sign of liquid entering the compressor. With blockage, it was 118 max. Remember ambient was 44, is this a problem?
Also, it only takes about a minute, two at most, for the low ambient control to cycle.
Thanks, Kemp
The new hybrid condensing boiler, DHW tank and all 5 grandfathered 1" radiant heating lines are just below and or under this wine room. Only the evaporator is icing from the top down. She had a full basement with staircase from kitchen, but moved the wine room into the dining room above with 12 x 20 foot solid glass in three panels and quartz lighting although her own notes call for LEDs. My helper has blisters on the tip of his left ear accessing the TXV!
I'd start by evacuation and pull down to 500 and confirm you have a tight system. Could a leak have caused that evap freezup?
Weigh in 3#. Block CU to achieve 170, then clear SG if needed.
Get rid of the light bulb. Absolutely ridiculous, I'd like to see that in writing.
Install a CCH if not equipped.
Remove probe from bottle for further testing.
Pull down to 55°F. then clear SG if needed.
Measure SH 3-6" before LLSV. a close coupled system may run low SH 5-10°. Look for mid 40's evap and 5-10 TD.
CO:100-110 CI:150-170.
fan cycling will not maintain liquid state as fan cycling makes. you will not be able to clear sg w/o overcharging once you remove your blocking.
It should be piped with a trap but I've seen way worse and have never seen oil return issues with anything under 50'.
at 100-110 I don't think you are flooding back, sounds like a happy compressor to me.
Can you post MN of CU, Danfoss?
That's a big system what are the dimensions of the room?
It does sound like the TXV is too large or too far open if suction is only 30#. But it may well be that based on spec
how can that not freeze? The "design" spec of 28psig = 32.2°F and even colder at the evap. help me understand that one.
Weigh in 3#. Block CU to achieve 170, then clear SG if needed.
Get rid of the light bulb. Absolutely ridiculous, I'd like to see that in writing.
Install a CCH if not equipped.
Remove probe from bottle for further testing.
Pull down to 55°F. then clear SG if needed.
Measure SH 3-6" before LLSV. a close coupled system may run low SH 5-10°. Look for mid 40's evap and 5-10 TD.
CO:100-110 CI:150-170.
fan cycling will not maintain liquid state as fan cycling makes. you will not be able to clear sg w/o overcharging once you remove your blocking.
It should be piped with a trap but I've seen way worse and have never seen oil return issues with anything under 50'.
at 100-110 I don't think you are flooding back, sounds like a happy compressor to me.
Can you post MN of CU, Danfoss?
That's a big system what are the dimensions of the room?
It does sound like the TXV is too large or too far open if suction is only 30#. But it may well be that based on spec
how can that not freeze? The "design" spec of 28psig = 32.2°F and even colder at the evap. help me understand that one.single pain? frameless? Hope that evap isn't blowing on that glass. What would typical RH be in the summer in that dining room.
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