[jpsmith1cm]

R-600a like allmost all other europeans today and for at least past decade.

Personally I don't mind having less than 2oz of 600a in my kitchen. I say completely safe. Maximum allowed amount per appliance here is just over 5oz.

Got no problem with that, either.

What about the rack system I was working on today that holds a thousand pounds??

Maybe we should load that puppy up with R-290 or R-600a and watch the fireworks.


:couch:

Can anyone provide documentation that hydrocarbon refrigerants are more efficient that flourocarbon refrigerants?

 

[-MAKE-]

What about the rack system I was working on today that holds a thousand pounds??

I quess very few of us have a rack system to power refrigerators at home. As the topic stated. And as I said max allowed amount is about 5.3 oz.

Bigger commercial systems do not use HC:s but more conventional refrigerants. CO2 is still rare but it is allready in use in commercial refrigeration and in some heat pumps.

 

[jpsmith1cm]

I quess very few of us have a rack system to power refrigerators at home. As the topic stated. And as I said max allowed amount is about 5.3 oz.

Bigger commercial systems do not use HC:s but more conventional refrigerants. CO2 is still rare but it is allready in use in commercial refrigeration and in some heat pumps.

Of course not.

Thing is, there are an awful lot of rack systems out there, not to mention simple conventional refrigeration units.

5.3oz is not a lot of refrigerant and that little bit doesn't bother me for household use.


Yes, didn't Tesco's just have a major CO2 incident? I just posted about it in another thread here. BIG to-do over a bad joint.

 

[-MAKE-]

I read yor post and links.
That is the thing that bothers me with CO2. The pressures are way higher that we are used to. I can legally touch those things but i won't go near them:couchhide:

 

[Roadhouse]

Milk.

 

[ga-hvac-tech]

I have a question here:

If CO2 is such a damaging thing to the environment, is a greenhouse gas, and is being regulated... Why the heck are we designing and installing refrigeration systems using CO2?

Seems there ought to be a different refrigerant that is not as damaging to the world...

 

[jpsmith1cm]

I have a question here:

If CO2 is such a damaging thing to the environment, is a greenhouse gas, and is being regulated... Why the heck are we designing and installing refrigeration systems using CO2?

Seems there ought to be a different refrigerant that is not as damaging to the world...

Comes down to the GWP (Global Warming Potential) value.

CO2 has been assigned a GWP of 1.

R134a has been assigned a GWP 1300

R404a has a GWP of 3750

 

[Southern Mech]

Beer is the working fluid in mine, when I get home it helps me to bed so I can go to work the next day.

 

[Special-K]

BTW...it's only a fluid in parts of the system. It'll be a vapor and also a gas in other parts of the cycle.

Sorry, somebody had to point that out. :beat:

 

[Southern Mech]

someone had to go and get all techy and stuff. LOL

 

[Special-K]

I gotta do that every now and then so the guys will know I'm not just a pencil pusher.

 

[seuadr]

I'm not just a pencil pusher.

so you push pens and staplers too? :couchhide:

 

[ga-hvac-tech]

so you push pens and staplers too? :couchhide:

He pushes the mod and ARP buttons also... :CU:

 

[sweat hog]

The working fluid in my cave fridge is beer. As long as it makes the beer cold I dont care.
The one in the forbidden zone is 134

 

[Special-K]

He pushes the mod and ARP buttons also... :CU:

 

[ICanHas]

Back yourself up, please.

R-12 is a great refrigerant in many applications and I'm sad to have been around for it's politically motivated demise.

I'm not entirely opposed to the use of flammable or toxic refrigerants, but I also think that human safety MUST be considered above any concerns for environmental safety or efficiency standards.

When R-12 came out, it was used to replace some seriously toxic refrigerants, like sulfur dioxide and and methyl chloride. Compared to HC blends, it's a declawed cat, because neither R-12 nor HC blends are toxic, but R-12 is non-flammable.

As someone mentioned, R-600a is extensively used in Europe, in an amount that sums up to something like a can or two of hair spray. I think a typical woman has more HC propellant in the bathroom than a HC refrigerant refrigerator.

As for larger systems, HC refrigerants are extensively used in process cooling, particularly in petrochemical industry.

http://www.linde-gas.com/en/images/Linde Hydrocarbon Refrigerants17-11492.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=RU...t&resnum=5&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=hydrocarbon refrigerant refinery&f=false

R-410A can be more or less efficient than R-22 for air conditioning depending on condensing temperature. I'm not sure how HC compares to CFCs over wide range of conditions.

 

[jpsmith1cm]

How does being non flammable make R-12 a "de-clawed cat"

Your analogy doesn't make any sense unless having a bomb for a fridge gets you excited or something.

If HC refrigerants were a LOT more effective than CFC/HCFC/HFC refrigerants, then I could see it but since you won't or can't provide the documentation to prove it, take a hike.

 

[ICanHas]

How does being non flammable make R-12 a "de-clawed cat"

Because it will function just like HC blend, but it won't scratch you even if you mishandle it.

 

[jpsmith1cm]

Never brazed around R-12, have you?

Yeah, it might not scratch, but it's got a bite when you heat it up.

 

[amd]

A blend of R-728, R-732, and R-718.