[ehsx]

do they, by occurence have a stake in some vacuum oil company?

Reminded me of a small ref company getting called to an industrial job and killing 4 pumps in two days and wondering why.

Chiller had ruptured tubes an filled with water, their “cold trap” was cu tubing run thru a pan of cold water.

 

[dougfamous]

But in residential your not running the pump 4,6, 8, 24 or more hours!

That was my point. On a busy day you might use your pump two or three different times in a day. That's why "change it after every use" isn't really practical.

In my experience, most techs only get their oil changed once a year when the J/B or Yellow Jacket rep has a counter day at the supply house. Vacuum pumps are not fragile, delicate things that have to be babied. The manufacturers all know darn well they're going to get abused and they're designed to take it. I've had my J/B for almost 20 years now and the only thing I've ever had to fix on it was a broken coupling. I change my oil when I remember, when the level dips below the sightglass, or when it won't pull a vacuum anymore.

 

[ehsx]

That was my point. On a busy day you might use your pump two or three different times in a day. That's why "change it after every use" isn't really practical.

In my experience, most techs only get their oil changed once a year when the J/B or Yellow Jacket rep has a counter day at the supply house. Vacuum pumps are not fragile, delicate things that have to be babied. The manufacturers all know darn well they're going to get abused and they're designed to take it. I've had my J/B for almost 20 years now and the only thing I've ever had to fix on it was a broken coupling. I change my oil when I remember, when the level dips below the sightglass, or when it won't pull a vacuum anymore.

Try putting a little water in your trucks crankcase and see if it helps.

 

[takoateli]

I'm changing my oil now

 

[slctech]

There is a HUGE difference between air with natural entrained moisture versus physical water. 99% of vacuuming is just removing atmospheric air from a system which will pass straight through a pump and out the exhaust and little to zero fouling of the oil. We breathe this air into our lungs 90 times a minute...don't see people drowning.

It is the systems that have actual liquid water that will require special treatment.

Vacuuming doesnt remove water it may boil it off for a bit, but you would be at it all day into a week.

90% of the guys here are residential and just replaced an evap coil or installed a new condenser and are not dealing with a ruptured chiller barrel or a line set left open to the rain and snow during new construction, they are simply sucking what little air there is out of the pipes and heading off to the next job....we over think this stuff.

There is a purpose to suction and liquid driers..if needed...those are educated additions based on a predetermined failure of a system. For example, I know that maybe a system with POE was flat all winter long and high probability that the oil has absorbed quite a bit of moisture..I can vacuum until the cows come home and never get that moisture out of the oil, but using a drier and monitoring oil on later visits I can slowly mitigate that moisture and possibility of it creating acids.

I will repeat...water in vapor form that is just trapped in the air, is quickly sucked out and exhausted out of the pump without even seeing the oil in the pump.

 

[HVAC_Marc]

Try putting a little water in your trucks crankcase and see if it helps.

It boils right out on the first long highway run.

 

[takoateli]

I had heard one should put the vac gauge right on the pump and test it before each use to determine if the oil is still OK. It's supposed to go under 100 µm within something like 30 seconds.

I also heard you should change the oil when it looks cloudy or discolored.

I have pulled a vacuum on residential systems I repaired and ended up with compressor oil in my hoses and a little got into the pump.

It seems like if you're doing new installs w/ new line sets the oil lasts for ever.

If I reuse a line set with new equipment I run piggies through to get as much old oil out as I can.

 

[ehsx]

It boils right out on the first long highway run.

Plugs the oil filter & foams the oil.

 

[R600a]

I have never seen the oil look bad in the sight glass when it looks bad after I drain it.

 

[HVAC_Marc]

Plugs the oil filter & foams the oil.

foams for a very short period of time. the rest of the steam comes out of the various vents in the engine. there is little to no damage caused to the engine. water boiling off in an engine is a daily occurrence for everyone. it's expected and a product of combustion.

if you are plugging an oil filter with mere water in an engine you have much BIGGER problems than water.

By your logic, you need to change the auto's oil after EVERY startup and drive.

 

[takoateli]

There's a sloppy cut-corners tech who used to work here. He's a friend and sometimes we team up on big jobs.

One time I borrowed one of his vac pumps. He said he hadn't change the oil in a while. I changed it before using it. It came out like dirty yogurt.

 

[ehsx]

foams for a very short period of time. the rest of the steam comes out of the various vents in the engine. there is little to no damage caused to the engine. water boiling off in an engine is a daily occurrence for everyone. it's expected and a product of combustion.

if you are plugging an oil filter with mere water in an engine you have much BIGGER problems than water.

By your logic, you need to change the auto's oil after EVERY startup and drive.

Google “water in auto motor oil”

 

[HVAC_Marc]

Google “water in auto motor oil”

I already did, and it said that water (condensation) is normal and a byproduct of combustion (which I already knew). It burns/boils/evaporates out when running the engine (which I also knew).

We are not dumping ounces of water directly into a vacuum pump. So, the equivalent comparison is condensation from burning hydrocarbons in an engine. We are pulling non-condensibles from a vaporous refrigerant system into the vacuum pump.

So, by your logic, we need to change the engine oil after every startup.

 

[BBeerme]

I came up with a general rule of trying to remember to change the oil after five uses. In reality, seems to vary greatly. Much depends on run times and available time to change the oil.

 

[ehsx]

I already did, and it said that water (condensation) is normal and a byproduct of combustion (which I already knew). It burns/boils/evaporates out when running the engine (which I also knew).

We are not dumping ounces of water directly into a vacuum pump. So, the equivalent comparison is condensation from burning hydrocarbons in an engine. We are pulling non-condensibles from a vaporous refrigerant system into the vacuum pump.

So, by your logic, we need to change the engine oil after every startup.

Small amount of condensation or free water is a big difference. In the combustion process vapor entering the engine is exhausted due to the high cylinder temperatures.

https://vehq.com/what-happens-if-you-put-water-in-your-car-oil/
Water is considered a contaminant to your engine oil and will affect its performance. Once contaminated, the motor oil won't be able to lubricate moving parts of the engine efficiently. This could lead to serious engine problems, such as broken piston rings, damaged combustion chamber and cylinder head valves.
Water isn't supposed to be inside the oil port, right? There could be issues with compression because the water has nowhere else to go. This would cause the piston rods to break eventually. They could cause a hole in the engine. When this happens, you will lose oil, and the engine will stop running.

 

[HVAC_Marc]

I haven't changed mine in a year... at least. I do mostly repairs and some installs. It's a CPS 6 cfm pump. I pulled a 130 micron vacuum in roughly 30 minutes with one hose on the vapor side of the equipment. It was still falling but I was impatient and it was hot/100% humidity out.

 

[HVAC_Marc]

Small amount of condensation or free water is a big difference. In the combustion process vapor entering the engine is exhausted due to the high cylinder temperatures.

https://vehq.com/what-happens-if-you-put-water-in-your-car-oil/
Water is considered a contaminant to your engine oil and will affect its performance. Once contaminated, the motor oil won't be able to lubricate moving parts of the engine efficiently. This could lead to serious engine problems, such as broken piston rings, damaged combustion chamber and cylinder head valves.
Water isn't supposed to be inside the oil port, right? There could be issues with compression because the water has nowhere else to go. This would cause the piston rods to break eventually. They could cause a hole in the engine. When this happens, you will lose oil, and the engine will stop running.

You're comparing massive amounts of water in an engine by volume to miniscule amounts of it in a vacuum pump. This isn't even the same comparison! Hydrostatic lock in an engine is caused by flooding it with water, not by condensation. Additionally, even burning coolant,m while not good for the engine, can be done over thousands of miles before any appreciable damage happens. Your example is purposely adding a MASSIVE amount by volume of water to an engine and saying "there's the problem!"

It's not even on the same level as non-condensibles in a vacuum pump and, for that matter, normal condensation in an engine.

 

[ehsx]

You're comparing massive amounts of water in an engine by volume to miniscule amounts of it in a vacuum pump. This isn't even the same comparison! Hydrostatic lock in an engine is caused by flooding it with water, not by condensation. Additionally, even burning coolant,m while not good for the engine, can be done over thousands of miles before any appreciable damage happens. Your example is purposely adding a MASSIVE amount by volume of water to an engine and saying "there's the problem!"

It's not even on the same level as non-condensibles in a vacuum pump and, for that matter, normal condensation in an engine.

Head gasket leak or ruptured chiller tube or condensation in an open chiller with chilled water flow passing thru. Guess we work in two different worlds.
Still have 3-4 vacuum pumps 30-50 years old, all work fine. Oil changes never hurt them, no changes and they would have been scrap metal.

 

[HVAC_Marc]

Head gasket leak or ruptured chiller tube or condensation in an open chiller with chilled water flow passing thru. Guess we work in two different worlds.
Still have 3-4 vacuum pumps 30-50 years old, all work fine. Oil changes never hurt them, no changes and they would have been scrap metal.

:deadhorse:

 

[knthms]

That was my point. On a busy day you might use your pump two or three different times in a day. That's why "change it after every use" isn't really practical.

In my experience, most techs only get their oil changed once a year when the J/B or Yellow Jacket rep has a counter day at the supply house. Vacuum pumps are not fragile, delicate things that have to be babied. The manufacturers all know darn well they're going to get abused and they're designed to take it. I've had my J/B for almost 20 years now and the only thing I've ever had to fix on it was a broken coupling. I change my oil when I remember, when the level dips below the sightglass, or when it won't pull a vacuum anymore.

orrrrr when the guys don't put it back in it's slot and it falls over and drains all the oil out everywhere. Truck will never rust so there's that!