HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air & Refrigeration Discussion banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Trane vs. Carrier vs. Bryant

Jump to Latest
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
D

dhh

· Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
I asked this in another thread, but that thread became rather heated and so it go burried. Not sure if I'm allowed to ask brand-name questions. Sorry if it is taboo, and I'll understand if I'm told same.

I'm currently negotiating between three contractors. Contractor A sells Trane and only Trane. Contractor B is pushing Carrier (not sure if he sells anything else). Contractor C sells Trane, Carrier, and Bryant and is pushing Bryant. It makes it hard to compare pricing because I'm not sure if I'm being qouted the same things.

Asked B & C what they think of Trane: B (Carrier guy) says Trane and Carrier are identical. Both are great. C (Byrant guy) says Trane is the cadillac and he wouldn't push that to me (I guess I don't come across as one who drives a cadillac) and says that Bryant and Carrier are in fact the exact same units.

Asked A (Trane guy) what he thought of Carrier and Bryant: says all others suck and that the only good buy is Trane.

So then if I take all of it at face value and balance it out: Trane=Carrier=Bryant and either all three are great or all three suck. Or Trane/Carrier/Bryant are all quite different and I've not idea which is good/bad/ugly.

Comments?
 
#2 ·
Do some reading on here and you will find (and I agree) that the brand does not really matter as much as the installation. In other words the best unit in the world put in wrong will not work correctly and the cheapest unit installed correctly will give good service.

Always be leary of a salesman who bashes a product other than the one he sells. This is a sign of his own weak ability to convince you why you should buy from him; a sign of lack of knowledge or dishonesty on his part.

Some units from some manufacturers do have different features such as variable speed blowers, 2 stage units and better controls to get different performance from the unit. All three of the brands you mention are quality brands. Each makes different levels of equipment from the introductory budget level to the higher tier, so just like cars, you can buy a Geo or a Cadillac from the same manufacturer. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples and make sure you pick the best contractor, not the name brand.
 
Save
Like Like
#3 ·
First, both brands, or all 3 whatever, have several grades. Be sure you are comparing like models. Builder, mid line and high end.

Carrier & Bryant are mechanically identical, cosmetically different. Trane has similar models & features but no way related to the others. We can debate for years on which is best.

You can look over your bids closely to see if all are doing the same. Lineset, disconnect, stat, etc. Post the model #s of what you are looking at and we can help tell you if you are comparing like machines.

http://www.johnmills.net/outdoorunits
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
***RE: You can look over your bids closely to see if all are doing the same. Lineset, disconnect, stat, etc. Post the model #s of what you are looking at and we can help tell you if you are comparing like machines.***

I've asked a more formal reply in relation to this in a new thread (asking for what all should be in a bid).

Let me ask this here, though: What do you mean when you refer to "Lineset, disconnect, stat, etc." in my bid? There is nothing even close to that amount of detail on any bids I'm getting. I don't even know what those are.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
***RE: posting exact model and brand of furnaces so experts can tell me if they are the "same"***

Trane:
Furnace -- TUY080R9V3
AC -- 14SEER 3.5 Ton 4TTX4042*1000* with Cased 410 Comfort Coil RXC037S3HP

Carrier:
Furnace -- 58MVB080
AC -- all I have been told is "TXA 13 SEER with TXV Coil" at 3.5 tons.

Bryant: (contractor isn't telling me)
Furnace -- can you tell me what is comparable?
AC -- can you tell me what is comparable?

My own Manual-J, using "HVAC-Calc" software program:
Total Heat Loss (BTUH): 48,000
Total Heat Gain (BTUH): 34,000 (approximately 33,500 being Sensible Gain).
 
#6 ·
All of the brands you mentioned, Carrier, Bryant, Trane are quality brands. American Standard makes Trane, they are also a quality brand. Lennox, Rheem and York are also quality brands. That's not saying thet some of the lesser known brands (Armstrong, Tempstar, Arcoaire, and a host of others) are not good relaible equipment, they are usually not as technically advanced or highly marketed as the big guys. If sized and installed correctly, all of the above will heat and cool your house to your satisfaction. Like an automobile, it depends on the features you want and what you are willing to spend for those features. Listen to Baldloonie, all brands have low grade (builder grade), mid-grade, and high-grade. Choose mid-grade and up on equipment from any of the above manufacturers, get the 10 year extended warranty, have routine maintenance done 2x a year on the equipment and you'll be happy, happy camper.
 
#7 ·
dhh

You should be aware that your furnace blower rating must be at least equal to the tonnage on your AC condenser size. Being fairly familiar with the Trane models, I believe the Trane furnace selection has a 3 ton rated blower which will be incompatible with the 3.5 ton Trane AC condenser. Plus I would look into the next size up RXC evap coil.

IMO
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Re: Trane furnace blower and AC condensor compatability --

How about some more commentary on that observation? The reply indicating the quoted Trane furnace blower is not compatible with the quoted AC condensor

Furnace -- TUY080R9V3
AC -- 14SEER 3.5 Ton 4TTX4042*1000* with Cased 410 Comfort Coil RXC037S3HP

Also, why do you recommend a different coil? Can you offer some insight on the relationship between the coil, the condensor, and the furnace/blower?
 
#9 ·
The coil is fine. You can go bigger but no reason to.

BUT!

The blower is a nominal 3 ton meaning the max it is designed to put out is around 1200 CFM. Typical airflow for cooling is 400 CFM per ton so your system should move around 1400 CFM total. You can get close with that furnace if the control is set right but if your duct system is at all restrictive, you are putting a good strain on the motor.

Really ought to bump up to the 100 furnace with 4 ton drive. That way the dealer can reduce the speed a bit for your 3.5 ton A/C.

Of course with a heat gain of 34,000, that's really right about a 3 ton A/C! Do you want it particularly cold inside?
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
"Of course with a heat gain of 34,000, that's really right about a 3 ton A/C! Do you want it particularly cold inside?"

This gets back around to a discussion of whether or not a contractor should or should not be performing a Manual 'x' rather than just going by rule-of-thumb. A debate that apparently will never be settled (at least on this forum). My Manual-J indicates a 2.5 to 3 ton (depends on the numbers I put in). Contractor A (the Trane guy) originally recommended a 3 Ton because he lives in the general vicinity and has a house of generally comparable size and wished he had put in a 3.5 Ton...although his house is a few hundred sqft larger. I don't know why he decided to recommend a 3.5 Ton to me, then (having originally indicated 3 Ton when I asked for 2.5 Ton). Contractor B recommended 3.5 Ton because "bigger is better" (which was exactly his rational for the furnace sizing also).

Hence all my worrying about whether I should be demanding a Manual 'x' before accepting the contracts.
 
#12 ·
bigger is not better. properly sized and properly installed is better. 80% of units in phx az are oversized. that keeps me in business. check out the nci website (national comfort institute) you would be amazed at what the truth is.
 
#13 ·
Alarm! Bigger is worse. Go for right sized.

Manual J and psychrometrics should tell you the right size for you. But it depends on correct inputs. If you/the contractor have put in the right data, then follow the results.
 
Save
Like Like
#14 ·
dhh

My point about the larger size evap coil is a higher SEER rating. If you elect to go with Trane, then I suggest you follow up on this. Yes, the coil quoted is fine but does it provide the best efficiency.

Regardless of which manufacturer you select, you do not want a smaller rated blower paired with a larger AC condenser. And of course your ductwork must also be sized correctly for your new system.

My opinion.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
OK, so the system is nearing completion. Contractor planning on doing final "walkthrough ("walkout"?) in two days.

Bryant 355AV042060 Plus 90I furnace with Bryant EAC and Bryant 165AAN036000 15SEER 3Ton AC.

I am totally paranoid about consulting this forum because invariably the feedback is in the form of "you messed up" or "be VERY careful about...". But I am addicted at this point. Otherwise, since it is all done I should just cover my eyes and move on.

All the discussion about airflow and duct sizing has got me very worried, but I don't know if I should be or not.

The contractor has done zero engineering that I can tell. The placement of all the components was strictly "where it would fit". The sizing of the ducting as strictly "this should be fine". Now that he's at the point of "balancing" system, I asked him about that.

His method is to hold his and hand up and feel the air coming out...

I asked him about the kinks, sags, and obvious "bunching up" on the flexible air ducting and he said "don't worry about it, it will all be fine, we'll probably have to reduce the air flow as it is anyway...of course based on his "hold his hand up to the air flow" methodology.

Should I run away screaming like a maniac and bury me head...or is it possible that I'm just being paranoid and "over engineering" things?

should I run away screaming like a maniac (after all this discussion of engineering the air flow)?

I
 
#18 ·
acbyj208 said:
bigger is not better. properly sized and properly installed is better. 80% of units in phx az are oversized. that keeps me in business. check out the nci website (national comfort institute) you would be amazed at what the truth is.
Click to expand...
Yeah ..Properly installed is more like it .. But assuming it is properly installed, sizing is the next most imortant. For example, If your in zone 2 with non low-e windows that face west and your a/c does not keep up, ( >+3) you should consider a larger unit or have a forward looking plan that includes minimizing infiltration
 
#19 ·
BaldLoonie said:
First, both brands, or all 3 whatever, have several grades. Be sure you are comparing like models. Builder, mid line and high end.

Carrier & Bryant are mechanically identical, cosmetically different. Trane has similar models & features but no way related to the others. We can debate for years on which is best.

You can look over your bids closely to see if all are doing the same. Lineset, disconnect, stat, etc. Post the model #s of what you are looking at and we can help tell you if you are comparing like machines.

http://www.johnmills.net/outdoorunits
Click to expand...
i will spare the debate, trane is the best :D :p
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
About this Discussion
23 Replies
13 Participants
Last post:
ClassicDave
HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air & Refrigeration Discussion
posts
5M
members
275K
Since
2000
The #1 HVACR Community
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
AOP Residential HVAC/Refrigeration(Beenthere Zone) General Discussion Tech to Tech Chat - Residential Controls Refrigeration & Ice Making