[SMC23]

Greetings All!

This is my first post here and have finally registered to seek advice from the experts here.

I am moving to a new house and the builder has installed a Carrier Base Model High Efficiency Furnace 92.5% AFUE (model 58MCB). I have the opportunity to upgrade this to the Carrier Infinity furnace. My first question, will I notice an appreciable difference, in terms of savings and comfort, by opting for this upgrade??? I would have to pay about $1500 after rebates.

Whether or not if I decide on the upgraded furnace, I plan to install the following items:
- VanEE Gold Series 2001 ERV (200CFM)
- Carrier Bypass Humidifier
- 15.5 SEER Carrier Performance AC.
- Infinity Controller (only if I upgrade the furnace).

I would like to control the VanEE ERV settings directly from one control unit. Since I will be getting a non-Carrier ERV will the VanEE ERV interface with the Infinity Controller??

Lastly, what size media filters does the media filter cabinet accommodate with the Infinity furnace? Is this standard filter unit as good as the Performance EZ Media Filter?

Thanks all and any help would be greatly appreciate before I invest into this system.

 

[RyanHughes]

I would recommend the variable-speed furnace for more comfort (and the blower is more efficient, provided the ductwork is sized properly). Also, doubtful the A/C will get near 15.5 SEER without the variable-speed blower. Hard to get above 14 with a standard blower. The standard media cabinet should be fine. I'll let others give you more details on the size, though. Your dealer should be able to give you this info too.

 

[amd]

Whether or not if I decide on the upgraded furnace, I plan to install the following items:
- VanEE Gold Series 2001 ERV (200CFM)
- Carrier Bypass Humidifier

If the house is built well, you won't need the humidifier. A humidifier is just a patch for poor building/air sealing practices.

What kind of climate are you in?

The ERV transfers humidity - good in humid climate. If ventilation will be required to keep the relative humidity in check, get an HRV.

 

[SMC23]

Thanks so far for the feedback. I not 100% sold on the Infinity Furnace yet. I see 96% AFUE VS the standard base model 92.5% AFUE. Would I really see savings from this???

If I get the Infinity, I will get the Standard Media Cabinet that comes optional.

Here is some additional information:
----------------------------------
House: 3,000 SqFt, including open to above living room
Construction: 6x2
Insulation: R20 walls, R40 Ceiling, spray foam garage and windows.
Windows: Double Pane Low E w/ Argon gas, lots of windows.
Weather Conditions: roughly 3-4 months cooling, longer winters.


Based on this info, do you think a humidifier would still be optimal?

In regards to the ventilator, I have read that an ERV would be better because I can use it year round and not just in the winter. Should I reconsider to an HRV?

More importantly, should the VanEE ERV/HRV interface directly with the Infinity Controller, in regards to controlling the fan settings??

 

[SMC23]

Anyone care to provide more insight.

Thanks,

 

[beenthere]

Comparing a 96% to a 92.5%. Would mean if the lower efficiecny furnace would cost you $1,000.00 a year to heat with. The 96% would cost you $963.54 to heat with. Or, a potential savings of $36.46 over the 92.5%.
So don't get it to save money on your heating bill.
It will how ever provide better cofort. Which can be worth more then the upgrade cost.

Not sure if the Infinity control can control the VanEE ERV.
With a fresh air intake (ERV) you may need the humidifier, from time to time. Depends on your exhaust devices.

 

[amd]

House: 3,000 SqFt, including open to above living room
Construction: 6x2
Insulation: R20 walls, R40 Ceiling, spray foam garage and windows.
Windows: Double Pane Low E w/ Argon gas, lots of windows.
Weather Conditions: roughly 3-4 months cooling, longer winters.


Based on this info, do you think a humidifier would still be optimal?

In regards to the ventilator, I have read that an ERV would be better because I can use it year round and not just in the winter. Should I reconsider to an HRV?

More importantly, should the VanEE ERV/HRV interface directly with the Infinity Controller, in regards to controlling the fan settings??

Don't get a humidifier right away; if the house gets too dry after one year (building materials could take a while to dry out), a humidifier could be easily added.

With the infinity furnace you get two-stage heat (make sure that you get a two stage t-stat) and a variable speed ECM blower.

Two-stage = More comfortable, quieter, no fuel savings
Variable speed = Much lower electricity use, ability to slow down blower to improve a/c dehumidification, speed varies to maintain airflow based on static pressure (Ex: Blower will ramp up to compensate dirty filter, to an extent.

If you plan on running the fan continuously, the ECM could save you $200+ per year worth of electricity.

ERVs don't necessarily transfer all of the humidity, and usually when it's warm a humid, outdoor air quality is poor anyway. (Why run the ERV in the summer?)

I don't know anything about the carrier's proprietary controls, someone else will have the answer that.

 

[SMC23]

Comparing a 96% to a 92.5%. Would mean if the lower efficiecny furnace would cost you $1,000.00 a year to heat with. The 96% would cost you $963.54 to heat with. Or, a potential savings of $36.46 over the 92.5%.
So don't get it to save money on your heating bill.
It will how ever provide better cofort. Which can be worth more then the upgrade cost.

Not sure if the Infinity control can control the VanEE ERV.
With a fresh air intake (ERV) you may need the humidifier, from time to time. Depends on your exhaust devices.

The exhaust devices would be two bath room fans, a canopy range hood in the kitchen, and of course the ERV. In this sense would you still think a humidifier would be necessary?

I guess i have to weigh in if comfort is an importance over the added cost.

 

[SMC23]

D
With the infinity furnace you get two-stage heat (make sure that you get a two stage t-stat) and a variable speed ECM blower.

ERVs don't necessarily transfer all of the humidity, and usually when it's warm a humid, outdoor air quality is poor anyway. (Why run the ERV in the summer?)

Do I need to specify those extra features for the furnace? I thought those are standard items on the Infinity furnace?

I would like to run the ERV year round as I like the concept that fresh air will be pulled into the house.

 

[SMC23]

What about the Performance AC? Would this be overkill for me as I only foresee using the AC for 3months a year.

If I could save $500 by going with the 14 SEER comfort series AC, would you recommend this over the Performance 15.5 SEER?

What about a Heat Pump? Would this unit work in tandem with the Infinity furnace?

Sorry for all the questions, I would to get the system done right the first time!

 

[21degrees]

Clear the air

Greetings All!

My first question, will I notice an appreciable difference, in terms of savings and comfort, by opting for this upgrade??? I would have to pay about $1500 after rebates.

Yes you will notice a greater level of comfort and saving in electrical, and gas.

Whether or not if I decide on the upgraded furnace, I plan to install the following items:
- VanEE Gold Series 2001 ERV (200CFM)

Little small for hose size and don't go by manufactures sizes. Go 330 We also use them to exhaust bathrooms

- Carrier Bypass Humidifier

Good choice but get them to tie into hot water
- 15.5 SEER Carrier Performance AC.

Good choice and quiet, will communicate with Infinity controller.

- Infinity Controller (only if I upgrade the furnace).

A must if you want full functions


I would like to control the VanEE ERV settings directly from one control unit. Since I will be getting a non-Carrier ERV will the VanEE ERV interface with the Infinity Controller??

Yes, but you will need NIM system (Network Interface Module) in order to use Infinity controller. You can also get different Controllers for HRV.

Lastly, what size media filters does the media filter cabinet accommodate with the Infinity furnace?

16" x 25" or 20" x 25"

Thanks all and any help would be greatly appreciate before I invest into this system.

Good Luck

 

[amd]

What about the Performance AC? Would this be overkill for me as I only foresee using the AC for 3months a year.

If I could save $500 by going with the 14 SEER comfort series AC, would you recommend this over the Performance 15.5 SEER?

I don't work in the field, nor have I looked at Carrier's service/installation literature (some brands have it readily available), but two stage units can generally be hooked up to single stage thermostats. (Staging based on air temperature is replaced with a primitive fixed or algorithm based timer - no switching from high to low)

Toronto summers are mild (cooling isn't used much) as you know; I wouldn't get anything above 13 SEER unless there's a rebate available to offset the additional cost. Pairing a simple 13 SEER unit up with a variable speed air handler/furnace can increase the SEER rating by one point.

The standard used to be 10 SEER and there are many 7-9 SEER units still in use in toronto; operating costs are generally low so efficiency isn't a priority.

 

[DanW13]

If you were to upgrade to the Infinity from the basic 2 stage you will save alittle but inexchange of the modest savings you will get 3 stages of heat with the varible speed blower and a blower motor that is vary efficient compared to your standard blower motors. I am guessing you live in a cold/greengrass climate(Mid West) where if you really want nice equipment I would pair the Infinity 58MVC with a Heat Pump with a 15 seer rating which is called Hybrid Heating and nothing beats this set-up as far as conventional equipment. Along with the Infinity you will get a 4" Merv 16 filter included and filter Box this all comes with the furnace. I would also make sure you get the Infinity Controller paired with the furnace to get the maximum features of the furnace, which will control a HRV/ERV, a EAC if you get one, Humidifier, and also will control zoning if you happen to have zone dampers installed with the zoning panel. I would not recomend putting in a humidifer off the bat until you find that you need one and since this is new construction your going to have more than normal humidity from the building material for the first couple of years until things start to dry out, If you feel the need for humidity you can just boil a pot of water on the stove for awhile unitl your desired humidity level has been reached. Also if you are in a green grass climate there really is no need to spend money on a 2 stage AC/HP since the cooling season is fairly short compared to our heating seasons. You may also want to have installed inplace of a AC a Ventilating Dehumidifier which will basically give you the same comfort as a AC unit would for alittle less in operating cost so long as you have a tightly construted home paired with fresh air being brought into the home would be just as good as AC. Do you homework and compare apple to apples and so on before you make your decision. I should also note on the INfinity 58 MVC there are to modes the furnace can run in, one is comfort mode which is not cost efficent compared to a 2 stage furnace and then there's efficent mode the furnace can run in which will still give you good comfort but run in a more efficient manner.

 

[SMC23]

Thanks all for your well informed responses!

Well I'm sorta in a new dilema. The HVAC company has intially quoted me on a 100,000 BTU Infinity furnace, but after confirming with him he said my 2950 SqFt house actually requires an 80,000 unit.

When i asked if he would reduce the price accordingly, as I would imagine the 80,000 unit was cheaper, he said that they are the same price for me. Should I go for the larger 100,000 BTU furnace since it is the same price???

 

[DanW13]

Did he actually do a heat clac on your home to setermine you need a 80k furnace and not the 100k as I beelieve most here feel the 100k BTU was a bit big than your home requires. a 80k BTU sounds to be closer to the proper size but before committing to him for the job I would ask him to show you the Heat clac he used to determine what size you need for your home. I would still get some other quotes and ask all of them to do a load calc and see what others come up with fir equipment size. I would also tell who ever it is that comes out or prior to coming out that unless there prepared to do a load calc to determine sizing to not bother coming out for a estimate.

 

[SMC23]

The circumstance with this company is quite special. They're company actually installed all the HVAC for all the new homes for my builder so they have data for the proper sizing for my model.

Having said that, it sounds like I would do more harm by going with the 100,000 BTU unit.

I have no idea why he doesn't want to give me a lower price on the 80K unit.

 

[DanW13]

What the home was 50 yrs ago and what the home is now is apples and oranges then when they figured the proper size for the home 50 yrs ago. You may have better windows in the home then were there when it was orginally built, more insulation then whany built, better siding, so you can see home improvments made within the last 50 yrs to your home and any home is going to change the heating and cooling needs from what it use to be to what it needs today.