[Diceman]

Don't worry about EPA guys, they are all busy in the gay porn web sites............
And I hope they can a take a joke too......just in case.....

 

[Dowadudda]

I use to wonder about the refrigerants that would become used the most when all this alternative crap started 10 years ago. It looks like R404A is the choice these days for new stuff rolling out of factories for refrigeration stuff.

 

[icemeister]

I believe we can look forward to only having to carry R404A, R134A and R410A in the truck..........Yah, right....I should live so long.

I really like R404A for an all around gas. R134A is good but it has its limitations. R410A is aimed straight at the A/C guys. I can't wait to see what happens when they start messing around with POE's and blends.

 

[selfemployed]

Ice

Thats when we who have been dealing with the new refrigerants will have fun. But some of them are learning now on change outs from 22 > 410a not done correctly.

 

[R12rules]

BTW, I'm a broad whore.

Coming out is the first step toward recovery.

Now I'm sure Dice can spell... and so can Dave. But what I just read dont make sense.


I bring this old thread back up for genman... hope this helps.

 

[R12rules]

what about topping of r-12 w/ r-134a?

We might be better off by using an interim gas instead of a permanent gas like 134 in this instance.

 

[genman]

I believe we can look forward to only having to carry R404A, R134A and R410A in the truck..........Yah, right....I should live so long.

I really like R404A for an all around gas. R134A is good but it has its limitations. R410A is aimed straight at the A/C guys. I can't wait to see what happens when they start messing around with POE's and blends.

Will these three gases cover the market ???
John

 

[mike h]

Refrigerant Identifiers (Bacharach, SnapOn, etc.)

They are mostly used by auto air conditioning mechanics-- so they don't cover all of the refrigerants that we use.

Bacharach is a nice one-- we have used them for 5 years. http://www.bacharach-inc.com/PDF/Brochures/8002 GA 500 Plus.pdf

http://www.aituniversal.com makes one that covers more refrigerants. But have never used it.

As a wild ass rule of thumb-- 2% of the "wrong" refrigerant doesn't cause any problems. mike h

 

[icemeister]

Will these three gases cover the market ???
John

When I said that, it was wishful thinking. Although the market in general appears to be focusing on these three gases, I don't forsee any real possibility of getting back to only three tanks in the truck.....at least for another 10-15 years.

R404A and R134A are great long-term refrigerants that can used with existing systems as long as the oil issues are addressed. The R410A thing is altogether different.....it requires different hardware than the R22 system it replaces due to the difference in operating pressures. Also, since New R22 systems are still being manufactured and R22 refrigerant will still be available for quite a while yet, I think the crossover time from R22 to R410A will far exceed what we have seen with r12 and R502.

I currently see the number of old R12 systems with interims like MP39 in them slowly fading away. Remember, new R12 and R502 systems haven't been made for over ten years now and those are really starting to show their age.

The oil issue is something we all have to watch and learn about every chance we get. Some of the early hard-and-fast rules of what oil can only be used with what are slowly being picked apart and exposed as so much overkill.Early on with the interim blends, there was a whole lot of oil changing going on.....not much of the now. I see the same happening on conversions from MO or AB oil based systems to R134A or R404A because in many cases the oil compatibility thing isn't that big a deal. It just seems that more guys are using HFCs with the old oils and not having any major problems.

I haven't gone there yet. I would love to simply dump R134A or R404A into some of these beasts and forget carrying the HCFC blends in the truck. Time will tell.

 

[wunderman]

FIXIN IS MIXIN

 

[R12rules]

FIXIN IS MIXIN

And WHAT does that mean?

 

[Andy Schoen]

I haven't gone there yet. I would love to simply dump R134A or R404A into some of these beasts and forget carrying the HCFC blends in the truck. Time will tell.

For equipment that is nearing its end of useful service life, mixing gases may not necessarily be a bad practice from an economic standpoint.

Maybe there can be a universal warning label place on such systems. How about placing a sticker with big red lettering on the compressor: "NEOSL" (near end of service life).

 

[condenseddave]

FIXIN IS MIXIN

And WHAT does that mean?

I think he's one of the ones we've been hunting, er, "looking" for.

 

[wunderman]

no really,what i meant to say is mixin aint fixin. however 9 out of 10 customers want that $5 fix. i myself am guilty of mixing when the going gets tough. i mean who really gives a shit if there are 10 different combinations in the system. if that POS is cycling (on temp) run with it. i wont ever mix a system that has potential to run 5-10 years longer. but if its on its last leg and needs less than 15% capacity. HELL YEA.

 

[R12rules]

To that old sixties tune of "Who wrote the book on love?" ... "I wunder wunder wunder wunder WHO ... WHO mixed the gases in YOU!?"...........


If I admited to doing what you just said you do, I would have to deny I do what you do. Cause I dont talk about it, just in case I was ever tempted to do what you do.

But I can see why you said what you did and why you do it.

 

[icemeister]

For equipment that is nearing its end of useful service life, mixing gases may not necessarily be a bad practice from an economic standpoint.

I really wish you hadn't said that, Andy......it kinda gives the message that this gas mixing thing is OK.

As an astute representative of the manufacturing sector here on this site you're supposed to say "Heck no, don't ever do it....the TXV won't control well and you won't know how to set you're SH because of the mixed gases"....and stuff like that .

(condenseddave.....I'm still trying, but I really do feel that we're losing 'em )

 

[icemeister]

To that old sixties tune of "Who wrote the book on love?" ... "I wunder wunder wunder wunder WHO ... WHO mixed the gases in YOU!?"...........

Then from the fifties, there's "Who put the bomp in the bomp-she-bomp-she-bomp?"

 

[boat racer]

If I admited to doing what you just said you do, I would have to deny I do what you do. Cause I dont talk about it, just in case I was ever tempted to do what you do.

But I can see why you said what you did and why you do it.

Before I was being sarcastic, but on this I really am going to quote you ...

Could you possibly use any more pronouns?

 

[rocket]

REPLACEMENTS FOR R-12
here are the only acceptable replacement blends for R-12
(aceptable by all compressor manufactuers)
R401A (MP-39)
R401B (MP-66)
R409
THAT'S IT = THATS ALL
you may wish to believe the gas seller on approvals, but I called Copeland,Tecumseh and Carrier.

(HFC R-134a is not a blend , it's approved and my first choice for replacing R-12)

they are not NEW, they have been around 20 years, my first retro fit with MP-39 was 18 years ago - stop calling it new !!

if you wish to use the non approved blends, the count
goes up to possibly 6 (not 49)

most people buy blends based on the sales pitch of the seller, (all they gotta do is say "..it's a drop in)

so if you want to say "all these new blends, it's crazy",
and you want to mix them (illegal) that's fine with me but don't work on my stuff

 

[Andy Schoen]

I really wish you hadn't said that, Andy......it kinda gives the message that this gas mixing thing is OK.

I'm sorrryyyy...

Obviously, I agree gas mixing isn't right. But if one knows the rules, then one is perhaps in a better position to bend them when the situation calls for creative thinking.