I have heard smw is easier to get in then ua? Which one has better benifts? I know here in minneapolis smw pays 37/hr for jorneyman and ua pays around 32/hr. If I have my diploma in hvac which one would be easier to get in to?
smw or ua union?
bl19811
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Don't know which one is easier to get into... or which one has better benefits... you gotta do your own work there.
Knowing what I know now, I would go UA before SMW if I could do it again.
Knowing what I know now, I would go UA before SMW if I could do it again.
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The plumbers and pipefitters are aggressively persuing the service side of the HVAC market in my area... heck, the 501 guys have a HVAC training center... with a marquee ad that caters to homeowners.knowing what i know now... i'd stay in the SMWIA.
Sheet metal shops are getting out of the actual duct fabrication business and outsourcing material to fab shops at production scale wages. For the shops still fabbing material, it takes fewer men to do it with automation.
Outside of big commercial or institutional work, buildings and homes are being designed with less metal ducting, which means fewer hours for installation.
The number of shops capable of bidding on large work is dwindling.
Typical union residential sheet metal work is no better than non-union and small commercial is following the same path.
Chicago will still remain a union stronghold as long as union cards are checked to get in to service the buildings... but there is no getting around the poor Local 73 pension issue.
Not so sure about the area surrounding Cook and Lake counties. Time will tell.
TMRCIN- When you switched over to the service side of the industry did you switch unions or go non-union?? I am thinking of switching just like you did -I have been doing union sheet metal work for 13 years. I live in the Chicago area -any suggestions?
Do you need a 2 year degreeto get into UA local 539? I am going for my diploma in residentail hvac at hennipen tech. Will I be able to get into the service side?
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Is it really due to higher standards or the "good old boy" network?
My SMW local wasn't "easy" to get into.... you had to pass a test and get through the apprenticeship program. The test is open to anyone only one week a year. The preapprentice rules are set up to favor cheap labor for the contractor- they can keep you out for 2 years.
Those that lacked basic high school math skills did poorly on the testing.
Those that didn't approach the apprenticeship seriously as an education program didn't make it... 30% dropout rates are not uncommon.
Those that fit the stereotypical drunk/druggie "construction worker" stereotype also have a hard time.
My local SMW apprentice has changed radically since I graduated. Those that do well are very well educated in the field. Those that "just pass" have a better education than the apprentices of 20 or so years ago.
Unfortunately, the "sheet metal" and "service" sides are segregated, and if you do not get into a service oriented shop as an apprentice, making the switch later is a virtual impossibility.
The Sheet Metal International favors a specialized vs rounded education program, further pigeonholing apprentices and making wage classifications easier in the future... this does not work in the members' favor.
As an observer, I think the UA is doing a better job at protecting their work... and keeping their members/contractors in line.
As long as sheet metal shops are allowed to buy product from lower wage scale production shops, you will have only so many members installing the product... that is continually designed to need less labor... while losing labor hours at the fabrication end. New sheet metal "shops" are storefront offices buying material from production fab shops.
Sheet metal workers do not need a license, at least in my area, so anyone with a van, gauges, refrigerant and some snips can chase the work.
Anyone with a welder and a van isn't going to be on a job pipefitting... or getting into a large chiller system.
Just like union SMW, union UA is not going to be competitive at the residential or small commercial end of the business with the unlicensed competition.
I really don't see "higher standards" as a factor in the equation.
jmiles when I switched to the service side it was with the same company I was working for. In sheet metal I had experience in all the different phases of the trade. Started working in the fab shop of a general metal operation, then in the shop of a duct shop , outside to installation, got into air balance ( start test and balance ) and it was here I learned a lot about service. If the fan won't start you can't balance it. Started out of high school in 64' and retired in 06'. When I switched from metal to service it was not easy. It was a union operation on both sides and the union guys and gals do work on some large equipment. From my background in sheet metal I had a good start but I was still going to school on the job and 3 nights a week. In my area I had more knowledge and skills in sheet metal and duct design that most service men, and it helped a lot. I was able to make journeyman in both trades. I advise you or anyone to work hard and learn as much as you can. It is all about salable skills. Good luck
there is a lot to learn here.
Many trade schools offer accelerated 6-10 month programs. If I had to choose, I'd go with a trade school rather than the 2-year community college route. Reason why, when you do get into the union, you'll be able to get a 2-year degree anyway with the credits you received through your apprenticeship. It wouldn't make much sense to go through it twice.
The job placement services at a trade school are usually better than those at a community college anyway. They have more industry specific contacts.
If you want to assemble manufactured duckwork for a living than i would recommend SMACNA. Although i don't quite understand why they provide a 5yr program to make skilled tradesman that dont use 90% of what they are taught anymore. Why do you need to know math to operate a tinners hammer and an impact driver??? I'm too young to remember but i'm pretty sure sheetmetal workers didn't used to be able to carry every tool in their arsenal in just a tool belt.
But anyways, if HVAC service is the way you want to head than regaurdless of dificulty of entry, the only way to go is U.A. Think of it this way..... If you were looking for the right choice of a woman the way your thinking of a career, which would you rather have? You could take the so called easy route?.?.? But will it really be that easy??? I think not. The easier the legs open, the wilder the ride will be and not in a good way. Guess what, you werent the only one those legs opened for. There are a lot of guys out there and they too might want the easy way, lets hope she doesn't insist on strength in numbers because that will just get down right messy. In terms of work don't get dragged into a trade that is over populated and at the same time doing less and less of the trade with there own skilled laborers.
Now lets look at the U.A.- like the prom queen, a little more wholesome, just as pretty, but you know she won't just follow you into the restroom cause you whispered into her ear that you like her. She is selective, her dad taught her the value of exclusivity. You will have to have your s@#t together, stay persistent, and show her why you want her and why she would want you. And in the end when you wake up with the best girl, and no crabs you will realize you made the right choice. Becuase you will have the best (training), and as long as you want it and work for it she will be there right by your side.
Nothing wrong with sheetmetal workers.
Just sheetmetal workers trying to do service work.
But anyways, if HVAC service is the way you want to head than regaurdless of dificulty of entry, the only way to go is U.A. Think of it this way..... If you were looking for the right choice of a woman the way your thinking of a career, which would you rather have? You could take the so called easy route?.?.? But will it really be that easy??? I think not. The easier the legs open, the wilder the ride will be and not in a good way. Guess what, you werent the only one those legs opened for. There are a lot of guys out there and they too might want the easy way, lets hope she doesn't insist on strength in numbers because that will just get down right messy. In terms of work don't get dragged into a trade that is over populated and at the same time doing less and less of the trade with there own skilled laborers.
Now lets look at the U.A.- like the prom queen, a little more wholesome, just as pretty, but you know she won't just follow you into the restroom cause you whispered into her ear that you like her. She is selective, her dad taught her the value of exclusivity. You will have to have your s@#t together, stay persistent, and show her why you want her and why she would want you. And in the end when you wake up with the best girl, and no crabs you will realize you made the right choice. Becuase you will have the best (training), and as long as you want it and work for it she will be there right by your side.
Nothing wrong with sheetmetal workers.
Just sheetmetal workers trying to do service work.
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205 Posts
Why doesn't the UA take in the SMW's HVAC side? I mean if you're installing duct board or spiral and rectangular metal duct with ductmate, I wouldn't even call that a sheet metal worker. That's what I call an HVAC Air Flow Systems Installer!!
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205 Posts
Why doesn't the UA take in the SMW's HVAC side? I mean if you're installing duct board or spiral and rectangular metal duct with ductmate, I wouldn't even call that a sheet metal worker. That's what I call an HVAC Air Flow Systems Installer!!
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