[plain spoken]

As stated earlier, good practice dictates that leaks be found and repaired. However, adding refrigerant to a residential system that is know to be leaking is not considered venting by the EPA and is not a violation of the regulation. Not sure why a change of administation has anything to do with this, this has been the law for 13 years now...during the administration of both parties.

I understand and support the no price discussion rule. What this homeowner says the contractor told him and what he says they charged him are just plain wrong. This gives the entire industry a black eye and there is no defense for it.

 

[aircooled53]

turtle the EPA :
title 608 states that if a system has 1/3 great loss of refrigerant in (1) year it must be repaired or at such time the peice of equipment should not be re-charged.

 

[mark beiser]

turtle the EPA :
title 608 states that if a system has 1/3 great loss of refrigerant in (1) year it must be repaired or at such time the peice of equipment should not be re-charged.

Only if it normally contains more than 50# of refrigerant, wich excludes your typical residential or light commercial system...

 

[mark beiser]

adding refrigerant to a system with a leak is of course venting. section #608 clearly defines 4 acceptable releases.adding refrigerant to a leaker is not one of those 4 end of story.

I thought we covered this in another thread a few months ago.
Adding refrigerant to a system that has a leak is not, and has never been defined as venting. It hasn't even been hinted that it could be considdered venting.

 

[stonefly]

you crack the valve on your jug and as a direct result refrigerant is released into the atmosphere....what better definition of venting could you ask for?
i have come to believe as a result of that thread a few months ago that epa is not prosecuting this as a violation.i suspect the return on the effort to do that isnt worth the trouble considering how our industry has stepped up to correct the problem.
misquoting the epa as a scare tactic to sell a new system is reprehensible, so is coming out every year to add two lb.of r-22 because you offered the choice of not correcting the problem.
i wasent in time to see the dollar amount so i have no opinion on whether they might be gouging. i picked up this ******** again because i have a definite opinion on thier right to do the right thing.

 

[Reeferman]

There is no leak that can't be found period. The tech was lazy,incompetent or both.

 

[aircooled53]

Most technicians are either to lazy or just don't care enough to give the customer the choice of finding the leak or repairing it.

I have found in my search for leaks and repairs to look at how bad and at what spot the leak is repairable or none repair.List my leak search findings on invoice and list options to customer. Then maybe they can make an informed judgement on future service or replacement.

And I would have to say I find more leaks with soap and a good light than with electronic D-Tek..

 

[plain spoken]

you crack the valve on your jug and as a direct result refrigerant is released into the atmosphere....what better definition of venting could you ask for?

While that may be your definition of venting, it is not the EPA's, and right or wrong it is not illegal. While you should encourage the owner to find and repair leaks, it is wrong to mislead them in an effort to scare them into spending money. This technician, and his company, may not be intentionally trying to do this, they may just be misinformed about the regulation. Some of the comments on this thread have shown there is quiet a bit of misconception about this.

 

[beenthere]

If the EPA consider a leak to be venting.
Then they wouldn't have trigger rates.
All systems would have to have the leak repaired, even if you only added 1 lb to a 2000 lb system.

 

[tw88]

Thanks to all for the replies; this has certainly been a frustrating exercise. At this point I think I will pursue this on two fronts: 1) I paid for a leak test but they didn't find the leak and 2) the fact they told me EPA regs required a leak test when that may not be the case. On the second point, the company has written to both me and my county's consumer affairs department (after I filed a complaint) that a leak test is required by law. I will be talking to a couple of environmental lawyers this week to get more clarity.

 

[model m-man]

Lawyer up & sue someone! Way to go! Everyone is doing it now a day's - right? If i was a judge instead of an under paid tech i'd charge the lawyer & their client for dumb lawsuit's which end up costing everyone else money!

There are other way's of handling your problem. Politeness & perseverence! While i don't know all the detail's, from what i've read - The service company lied to you about the EPA rules. However - if the charge was very low & they weren't familiar with your system their procedure was proper & in your interest. Not finding the leak with a detector isn't suprising, but he tried! He also put dye in the system so any future leak's could be found easily with a uv light & no evacuation. Have you asked them to come back & look for the leak? After the system has ran a while with the dye the leak can be found easily. If you haven't given them the opportunity to check it with a uv light on their dime your just as much at fault as they are. You can alway's use another company to do the repair's after the leak is found.(I would just because of the lie even if it was in your best interest) As far as $$$ go, i'll give you a bit of free advice an old instructor gave me. (Price Alway's Varies Per Customer's Attitude!)

 

[beenthere]

Lawyer up & sue someone! Way to go! Everyone is doing it now a day's - right? If i was a judge instead of an under paid tech i'd charge the lawyer & their client for dumb lawsuit's which end up costing everyone else money!

No you wouldn't.


Because if you were a judge, you would have been a lawyer first and made your money becuse of those law suits.