[slydawg]

Installation quality makes more difference than equipment selection.

Lower end HVAC equipment may suffer from lower quality installation at times. However, there has been discussion here of the quality of Payne, Goodman, Luxaire, Gibson, Heil etc. along with the builder grades of more upscale names. Some say the only distinction at the same SEER level is the outside case.

Is there a real distinction in quality or reliability, given the same quality of installation and maintenance? Do you have experience with any of the lower end lines? Which is best? Which is worse?

 

[bmathews]

My experience with equipment outside of the big guys being Carrier, Trane, Lennox, Goodman, Rheem and the brands they manufacture directly under their name. Is that it is hard to get parts for them sometimes. A lot of parts are interchangeable from say a Carrier to a Comfortmaker, but you have to be able to cross reference those parts and that is where the problem comes in. Otherwise, it's all pretty much the same junk outside of a few idiosyncracies.

 

[charlesw615]

This is an interesting question and I found myself wondering the same due to the fact most have the copeland scroll compressors most have the same contactors,capasitors and other items but I can tell you I have changed my oppion and do now beleave that there are differences in brands I guess this is due to the fact that each manufactures set there own specs when having copeland,and ect. built for them. I really beleave any builder grade unit is not worth the time it takes to install it nothing but a headache. We have installed a ton of amana/goodman and I wouldnt recommend them to my worst enimy not all because there junk but mostly because there warrenty is the worst in the industry. We have pretty good luck out of york as a cheap unit also like Nordyne but we haven't used them as much. I have a Comfortmaker in my house and it was pretty cheap dont have anything bad to say about it but again this is 1 so you can always get 1 thats good in all brands. I would agree that proper instullation and maintance is a huge issue in this industry deffinatly not enough of it going on.

 

[cjpwalker]

One big difference in my opinion is the lack of safeties. No the unit is not more likely to hurt your or your home if something goes wrong, but with fewer temperature sensors and pressure switches it could very well take a problem like a low refrigerant charge and destroy itself by continuing to run.

 

[HPGui]

We have installed a ton of amana/goodman and I wouldnt recommend them to my worst enimy not all because there junk but mostly because there warrenty is the worst in the industry.

Please be specific as to why you think Amana/Goodman has "the worst" warranties in the business.

 

[charlesw615]

For example you have a unit 10 year parts and labor warrenty ok No you ac went on last week of july we order an expansion valve 2 weeks later still dont have the part what do you have to do? Ill tell you you get to tell the theres nothing you can do waiting manufacture now a woman with 3 kids in 95 degree you will be her punching bag and have to listen to her crap for 3 hours and still nothin you can do. Everytime we order any part they tell us it has to be ordered from the factory and thats thats noone to call and yell at. This is our expreience maybe not everywhere

 

[HPGui]

For example you have a unit 10 year parts and labor warrenty ok No you ac went on last week of july we order an expansion valve 2 weeks later still dont have the part what do you have to do? Ill tell you you get to tell the theres nothing you can do waiting manufacture now a woman with 3 kids in 95 degree you will be her punching bag and have to listen to her crap for 3 hours and still nothin you can do. Everytime we order any part they tell us it has to be ordered from the factory and thats thats noone to call and yell at. This is our experience maybe not everywhere

Got it. So it's not the warranty itself you're complaining about. It's the parts service when you're working on a warranty claim. Pardon me if I've got this wrong, but isn't Goodman "the factory?" Are you saying your local wholesaler can't get you parts when you need them? If so, isn't that a local wholesaler inventory problem, rather than a Goodman/Amana warranty problem?

 

[heatsolutions]

Got it. So it's not the warranty itself you're complaining about. It's the parts service when you're working on a warranty claim. Pardon me if I've got this wrong, but isn't Goodman "the factory?" Are you saying your local wholesaler can't get you parts when you need them? If so, isn't that a local wholesaler inventory problem, rather than a Goodman/Amana warranty problem?

I'm not a big fan of Goodman, but I will say this they're probably one of the easiest manufacturers to get parts from as there are so many online supply houses selling their products.

 

[RoBoTeq]

Parts availability is always a geographical concern. It depends on how successful a brand has been marketed in any given area as to how readily available parts are. There are no exceptions to this. All manufacturer's of HVAC equipment have areas where they are not well represented.

I agree with the safety devices as being one thing that lesser costly equipment may be lacking. Then there are quality features that reduce sound levels, if that is a concern. Keeping going, some units have more sensor features, communicating capabilities etc. that make them worthwhile either for additional efficiency or comfort.

The best system is the system that is best for the individual application. There is no need to pay more for a quieter system if where the unit is located sound is not an issue. If you don't live in a humid area, an ECM motor may not be worth the money for the efficiency savings, which may not be realized anyway due to a poor duct system. (ECM motors are just as costly to operate as PSC motors are when they operate at high static pressures.)

 

[shhvac14]

My biggest problem with Goodman has always been parts. There are three dealers in my town alone that sell almost nothing but Goodman and we have two parts distributors in the area. Last winter I had to sell a customer a new furnace because both the primary and secondary heat exchangers were cracked. Heat exchangers were under warranty but none of our distributors could get the parts for four weeks or more.

To top it off, just this last summer we had a split tube inside of a Janitrol (Goodman built) heat pump. We took it off, installed a temporary a/c and THREE MONTHS later got the coil to fix it. It's been the same way for nearly all warranty parts except for the common stuff like caps, fan motors, and such. I don't mind the equipment but for the parts issues alone I will NEVER again offer a goodman built product, including PTACs and that's a whole other can of worms.

Most other companies we deal with we can have all major parts (coils, compressors) within a day or two.

 

[RoBoTeq]

What area are you in? When I was a Regional Technical Service Manager for Goodman, if I could not get a heat exchanger is a reasonable amount of time, I would authorize a replacement furnace. In fact, most Goodman furnaces have a replacement policy for heat exchanger failure.

 

[shhvac14]

I'm in Nebraska. When we tried to order the parts they didn't give us very much help or any options. We either had to wait or install something we had in stock to get the customer back up and running. Not sure about all the details but my boss tried to get something worked out and got nowhere.

 

[beenthere]

For example you have a unit 10 year parts and labor warrenty ok No you ac went on last week of july we order an expansion valve 2 weeks later still dont have the part what do you have to do? Ill tell you you get to tell the theres nothing you can do waiting manufacture now a woman with 3 kids in 95 degree you will be her punching bag and have to listen to her crap for 3 hours and still nothin you can do. Everytime we order any part they tell us it has to be ordered from the factory and thats thats noone to call and yell at. This is our expreience maybe not everywhere

Thats not Goodman. Thats your distributor not providing support. Here, the distributor stocks a large inventory of parts.

Some distributors like to sell boxes, but not parts.

 

[heaterman]

Thats not Goodman. Thats your distributor not providing support. Here, the distributor stocks a large inventory of parts.

Some distributors like to sell boxes, but not parts.

This IS the biggest issue when it comes to parts availability. Your wholesaler / distributor can make or break a brand. Support at this level is everything.

 

[charlesw615]

I would not argue the fact its the supply house it very well could be but i have had others tell me they had the same issues that were in other area now again you could very well be right . I can only go on what I see and deal with here. In fact it is so bad we as a company don't deal with amana/goodman anymore. Which would be good but we have been installing them for over 15 to 20 years so theres alot of them out there. I will also say that just like cars when you deal soley in one brand it hard to be clear if there a bad product because you see so many and dont have a comparison. We have since picked up rheem and carrier so I'll get a better sense of the competition.

 

[shhvac14]

I didn't mean to imply that I thought Goodman themselves were the problem. I understand it's the distributors not stocking parts and not offering support. But it is that reason I won't offer any of their equipment. Ulitmately the customer blames us when we can't give them the service they need wether it be our fault or the distributors.

 

[RoBoTeq]

This IS the biggest issue when it comes to parts availability. Your wholesaler / distributor can make or break a brand. Support at this level is everything.

You betcha! Truer words cannot be spoken, written or mimed.

 

[BaldLoonie]

Lower end equipment can be cheaper built but often it is defeatured. Sometimes that can be a problem too.

Cheaper built? Amana heat exchangers are stainless steel, Goodman aluminized. Rheem's RGRA deluxe 90 is stainless, the builder 90 is aluminized. Then there's Lennox. It's 95% HX is aluminized but the better Allied brands get stainless. Go figure.

Defeatured? OK, leaving some terminals off the board, less fan speeds, no blower compartment insulation doesn't mean that much. Leaving off compressor protection on a 410 system does. Rheem's JAZ line has high & low pressure switches. The cubes don't. We sell the cubes as that's what cheap homeowners want. So if there's a loss of charge, the compressor keeps running pulling moisure in, ruining the POE oil and contaminating the system. If the fan fails, pressures get high, also hard on the system. Saw a Bryant Puron unit where the tubing in the unit flat out split open.

Then there's dealer standards. This obviously varies by distributor but in our area, anyone can buy Goodman, they are very selective about Amana. Anybody can buy Payne, but not Bryant or Carrier. Anybody can buy the Rheem value products under the WeatherKing name, but not Rheem or Ruud. So sometimes with low end, you have to check out your dealer extra carefully.

Of course can get a hack job with any brand. One of our guys worked on a unit just installed for a friend of a supply house owner. Put in by one of their dealer's moonlighting installers. Said it was a hideous install. Obviously the homeowner got what he paid for Good product, just lousy job.

 

[Twilly]

You betcha! Truer words cannot be spoken, written or mimed.

Twilly use to be mime