[corneileous]

Hey guys, just curious… Why would anybody who has central heat and air want an actual heat pump outside that does both cooling and heating instead of just a plain ole outside AC unit that just makes cold air in the summer and then rely off the heater/furnace unit inside your house to make heat in the winter time? I guess I just don’t understand the purpose of this technology.

One of these days we’re going to have to replace our heat pump because it went out last summer… Well, I say it went out because it’s at least 25 years old and I’m pretty sure that it just needs to be replaced.

I think something serious is going on with it because before it went out last summer, it was struggling to cool the house, and then late last year, when it became time to start using the heater again, it wouldn’t kick on for its winter time duties so after learning more about it, I just switched off the breaker in the garage that goes to it and had to activate the emergency heat mode on my thermostat to heat the house properly but after talking to a technician on here about the heat pump, I’ve come to the conclusion that something else really bad must’ve happened to it because I found out that the two big ole AA battery-size fuses in the outside disconnect were blown and the new ones I put in it blew immediately.

Someday we’d like to replace it when we get the money to do it so we can stop using the window units but when we do, I think I’d rather put just a regular unit out there that doesn’t try to help heat the house in the summertime. Would that be the wise thing to do or do they even make non-heat pump style AC units anymore?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ksefan]

Heat pump units work great to lower utility bills, especially with backup electric resistance heat. It sounds like your system was possibly low refrigerant charge (poor cooling last summer), until the compressor locked up. When was the last time maintenance was performed?

Post on the cost of gas and electricity in your area, someone can help determine which source of backup heat is cheaper.

 

[Special-K]

A heat pump is basically an air conditioner that works in reverse when in heat mode. In cooling mode, it takes the heat inside the house and moves it outside the house. In heating mode, it takes the heat outside the house and moves it inside. So they aren't having to create heat, they just move it from one place to another.

But it's cold outside, so what heat? There is still lots of heat energy in the outside air, even in pretty cold temps. Being 30 or 40 degrees outside is a far cry from absolute zero, which is a theoretical number of -459 degrees F.

A heat pump will be far more efficient than straight electric resistance heat alone, and usually even more efficient than a gas furnace. Modern heat pumps are much better than units of 25 years ago; they blow warmer and will continue to heat efficiently at lower outdoor temps.

So yes, if you are total electric or even propane, it makes lots of sense to go with a heat pump.

 

[Special-K]

Also, this was moved to the AOP section. Please note new location.

 

[BNME8EZ]

As has been said a heat pump is an efficient way to heat your home, plus it gives air conditioning in the summer.

Now here is the hard part. Depending on where you are gas prices may be cheaper than electric and it may even be a case where there is no payback in utility savings to make up the difference in price "now". But what about next month, late spring, next fall, a year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years? The point is no one knows, today it may not make financial sense, but right now oil prices are on the rise, so in a few years that heat pump you don't buy could be saving you hundreds of $$$ a year.

The bigger issue is getting a good install. Your old one lasted 25 years it sounds like, that's a good run for most equipment today, especially a heat pump, because they operate more per year than a furnace or A/C. Because they run both winter and summer and most of the time in between, the installation is key to see that you get both the efficiency and longevity of the system you buy.

This purchase can be a prime example of that old saying "penny wise, pound foolish". The $$$ you save by not buying a heat pump may mean the loss of $$$$ of future savings. And no one has a crystal ball to tell you what those savings will be great or small, or somewhere in between which is the most likely.

 

[ehsx]

Operating cost lower. Have your ductwork assessed also it can have a major effect on operating cost.
I replaced the ductwork on the majority of jobs to improve air quality and reduce operating cost.
Used reduced plenum equal static metal mains & flex runouts. All joints mastic sealed.

 

[dan sw fl]

SYSTEM EVALUATION REQUIRED.

_ SYSTEM = LOCATION + BUILDING THERMAL ENVELOPE + EQUIPMENT + CONTROLS + ENERGY $$$

 

[kdean1]

I think of an air conditioner as a crippled heat pump.

 

[ga-hvac-tech]

Obviously... some places do not have Ngas... so if one chooses a fuel burning furnace... they will need a furnace designed for LP gas... as well as an LP tank and having it filled. Note that running LP in a furnace designed for Ngas... will cause lots of service and maintenance issues... as well as literally waste LP gas!
The thing it... LP costs roughly 3x as much as Ngas... for BTU heat content.

A HP... does not need LP gas (or Ngas)... so that expense is not there.
However...
Depending on the climate... A HP can be a good way to heat and cool ones home... or it can be something that never gets warm in the winter (colder climates).

It would really help if we knew your climate (city/state is fine).

 

[dougfamous]

Heat pumps with gas furnaces (called a "hybrid" or "dual fuel" system) have been around since the 80's at least. The original idea was to use the heat pump as the primary heat source because electricity was cheaper than gas. In colder climates, heat pumps won't keep up much below 30 degrees so then the gas furnace would kick in.

If you don't like the heat pump heat then go with the gas and just put a regular AC in. Heat pumps are noisy, blow much cooler air than a gas furnace, and are more expensive to repair than regular AC units. I don't believe there's a huge utility bill savings anymore for using electric over gas either.

 

[corneileous]

Heat pump units work great to lower utility bills, especially with backup electric resistance heat. It sounds like your system was possibly low refrigerant charge (poor cooling last summer), until the compressor locked up. When was the last time maintenance was performed?

Post on the cost of gas and electricity in your area, someone can help determine which source of backup heat is cheaper.

I’m not really sure what’s going on with it this time but you’re welcome to click on my profile and find the thread I created over in the section that lets you talk to a tech where only techs can participate if you’re curious.

As far as the last time maintenance was performed, that would’ve been more than several years ago when the unit that was checked out and I think had a little bit of freon added to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[corneileous]

Obviously... some places do not have Ngas... so if one chooses a fuel burning furnace... they will need a furnace designed for LP gas... as well as an LP tank and having it filled. Note that running LP in a furnace designed for Ngas... will cause lots of service and maintenance issues... as well as literally waste LP gas!
The thing it... LP costs roughly 3x as much as Ngas... for BTU heat content.

A HP... does not need LP gas (or Ngas)... so that expense is not there.
However...
Depending on the climate... A HP can be a good way to heat and cool ones home... or it can be something that never gets warm in the winter (colder climates).

It would really help if we knew your climate (city/state is fine).

I live in middle-southern Oklahoma so it’s humid pretty much all year ‘round with hot summers and some fairly cold days in the winter from end of November to about the first of March.

Everything in the house is electric. We don’t have gas anything in here which is weird being that the electricity in these parts has a pretty high tendency to be off a lot due to ice in the winter and severe thunderstorms in the fall and spring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[R600a]

I live in middle-southern Oklahoma so it’s humid pretty much all year ‘round with hot summers and some fairly cold days in the winter from end of November to about the first of March.

Everything in the house is electric. We don’t have gas anything in here which is weird being that the electricity in these parts has a pretty high tendency to be off a lot due to ice in the winter and severe thunderstorms in the fall and spring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Howdy from a fellow Okie. I am in Southwestern Oklahoma. Feel free to email me if I might be able to help you with something.

 

[R600a]

Personally in my area of southwest Oklahoma I like heat pump systems. It's warm enough most of the time that a heat pump is very efficient and works great and those few times it gets really cold that weather never stays around for long. I've seen customers stuck with all electric heat and the power bills are horrendous to the point where a heat pump pays for itself in a few months.

 

[ga-hvac-tech]

I live in middle-southern Oklahoma so it’s humid pretty much all year ‘round with hot summers and some fairly cold days in the winter from end of November to about the first of March.

Everything in the house is electric. We don’t have gas anything in here which is weird being that the electricity in these parts has a pretty high tendency to be off a lot due to ice in the winter and severe thunderstorms in the fall and spring.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I see 600 found this thread... I was going to ask him to respond to you.

600 is pretty sharp... and if he gets stumped... us guys will get him going... grin

 

[R600a]

I see 600 found this thread... I was going to ask him to respond to you.

600 is pretty sharp... and if he gets stumped... us guys will get him going... grin

Hey don't get folks expectations up too high. I am just a slightly better than average hack.

 

[ga-hvac-tech]

Hey don't get folks expectations up too high. I am just a slightly better than average hack.

You got this...

And if you struggle... we have your back!

And you can probably get Unlimited to come over and fix it for you... grin

 

[corneileous]

Personally in my area of southwest Oklahoma I like heat pump systems. It's warm enough most of the time that a heat pump is very efficient and works great and those few times it gets really cold that weather never stays around for long. I've seen customers stuck with all electric heat and the power bills are horrendous to the point where a heat pump pays for itself in a few months.

I'm starting to see that now. Hell if anything, I can see it saving wear and tear on the furnace too which means the replacement of a new heat pump would be a whole lot easier being that its outside.

 

[ga-hvac-tech]

Remember that the HP and indoor coil must be matched... or it will not work properly.
Generally, they are both replaced at the same time.

There are lots of options for HP's... however there are a couple of things to remember:
*The installing contractor is more important than the brand...
*Better to use a brand that is easily available in your area...
*And do not make a decision solely based on price...
See my sig line at the bottom of my post...

 

[BaldLoonie]

Key is utility rates. 10-12 years ago gas here was high and electric low. Now it seems to be going to the opposite. I still use my heat pump in very mild weather (2 colleagues at work don't use theirs at all).