Looks like the 4TWX7 and 4TWX8 has a 12 year compressor warranty and 10 year parts and coil warranty, whereas the 4TWR come with a 10 year compressor, parts and coil warranty once registered.

Looks like the 4TWX8 ( XL18i ) is a recently discontinued line as it does not show up on Trane current web-site for Heat Pumps. Does not make that a bad thing, as long as you can register for the full manufacturers warranty.

All look to be AHRI matched systems, you can check SEER2, EER2 and HSPF2 at this site, here are your numbers ( if homework was done correctly )

209068098, 7559637, 209068080, 209068072

https://www.ahridirectory.org/

Less complicated system are nice, Is that what you want?

No mention of labor warranties from there Contractors, if one gives more than the basic one year is that a nice perk, to have you lean in that direction?

Thinking all four model will qualify for any money in your pocket rebates your state may have and the Federal Tax Credits, did these Contractors mention both those programs to you?

 

Thank you Bazooka Joe for your replay

company A offered 2 years labor warranty while company B with the XR system offered 1 year labor warranty. Neither companies mentioned the Federal Tax Credit program. Does this something the contractor apply for on my behalf or I am the one to apply on my own. ( I do not know how it works).

When you said (All look to be AHRI matched systems) what do you mean by that and what is these numbers mean ( 209068098, 7559637, 209068080, 209068072) Sorry an ignorant person here.

Looks like the 4TWX8 ( XL18i ) is a recently discontinued *********** that explains it was priced on the low side? if it is discontinued, how I am to get parts if needed, God forbid.

Please, tell me the advantage of TEM8 vs TEM6 . Does really the TEM8 works better for Units in option company B?

 

https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal_tax_credits/air_source_heat_pumps

https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal_tax_credits

You can ask them about it or research yourself. There’s a Q&A section. You file with your taxes for 2023.

What about rebates from your state, did they mention those systems properly apply for $$$ in your pocket. If not why not? You can also research your local utility company or state web-state for rebates to see what are the minimum SEER/SEER2 ratings are.

Rebates are totally different from the Tax Credits, rebates are from your state and those are monetary amounts, whereas the Tax Credits are just that a tax credit when you file your 2023 taxes.

System needs to be AHRI ( Air Conditioning, Heating and Refrigeration Institute ) matched, reason for giving you the numbers of each models. Enter the AHRI number given on the AHRI site to see each SEER/SEER2, EER/EER2 and HSPF/HSPF2 ratings and the certificates.

Parts don’t matter much if one model is recently discontinued, think of buying a brand new one year old leftover car. Parts are the same as current models, after all current models someday will be discontinued or phased out.

Not sure what the advantages of the TEM6 vs TEM8, besides what you mentioned about the TEM8 not a Trane Dealer, download brochure of each and see what the features of each.

Here’s one guide Dated 2023 look under features

https://www.trane.com/residential/e...residential/en/assets/product-brochures/trane-ah-standard-brochure-06-02-23.pdf

 

I did look at this pdf about the air handlers before and the only difference between them is that TEM8 has ComforLink II or 24V connections. I tried to look at what is the advantage or functions of ComfortLink II or 24 V connections but to no avail. A quick google search about 24 V connections took me that most modern day smart Thermostat has 24 V connections.


I understand what you are saying by taking each number and searching it on the AHRI site to look up the specific system info such as SEER?SEER2... etc as you mentioned above. But, When you said System needs to be AHRI matched, where did you find these (209068098, 7559637, 209068080, 209068072)

 

I understand what you are saying by taking each number and searching it on the AHRI site to look up the specific system info such as SEER?SEER2... etc as you mentioned above. But, When you said System needs to be AHRI matched, where did you find these (209068098, 7559637, 209068080, 209068072)

Same site, different location. Enter model numbers of each section in designated area ( no need to enter brand name ) to start with do not enter the complete model numbers as typical they get kicked out, start with entering 3/4 of the model numbers then add a digit at a time to narrow down the system they are bidding. Does not matter if letters are upper or lower case or a combo of both when entering the model numbers.

If for an example you enter only half the models number of each section and it kicks it out, then it’s not a matching system, system still should work but your only guessing at efficiency ratings and if the equipment is rated to meet rebate and tax credits guidelines you miss out on those benefits. Or if you enter just the outdoor unit model number and those indoor model numbers do not show up then again it’s not a matching system, again does not necessarily mean system won’t work, but your guessing at efficiency and even efficiency performance.

Some manufacturers ( Trane being one ) on their warranty pages it says that to receive a manufacturer warranty both sections need to be replaced at the same time and be a AHRI match to get the manufacturer maximum warranty, there is some stipulation thou.

It will show active, discontinued, production stopped AHRI numbers. AHRI web-site is the Bible for ratings, as after all the Federal Tax Credits and state rebates use the number from AHRI web-site to prove ratings meet the rebates and tax credits minimum threshold. You can double check the numbers given to make sure they are correct. Those efficiency ratings are not real world but using the ratings with the 2 added in represents a more real world install than SEER, as you can see. They started using SEER2, EER2 and for Heat Pumps HSPF2 starting in 1/23. SEER, EER and HSPF is still around.

https://www.ahridirectory.org/Searc...uickSearch?category=8&searchTypeId=3&producttype=69&SubmenuId=3523&ProgramId=69

You need to register each section to get the manufacturer maximum warranties which you given you, if system never gets registered your warranty is cut in half for the most part.

California or Quebec need not register equipment to receive the manufacturers maximum warranty.

 

Thank you so much Bazooka Joe. You taught me so much today. I am learning how to use the AHRI website. Question, can you search by model number of the air handler or it just work with the model number of the condenser. Because I tried TEM8A0b24v21D and only typed TEM8a024 and it rejected. I removed the 24v21d and it still reject it. But when I try the condenser model number search it give me options and does not kick it out. For example, my condenser model number search came up with 50 pages with 500 options, I kept scanning the options till I found the one with the matching indoor air handler number and that gives me the AHRI reference number. Is there a more efficient way to search the AHRI reference number? and can you search by air handler model number or just the condenser model number.

Thank you

 

“Because I tried TEM8A0b24v21D and only typed TEM8a024 and it rejected.”

Because you did not enter it correctly. it’s Tem8a0b you left out B which I believe means it’s a 17.5” wide Air Handler, C means 21” wide, D is 24” wide A is 14” wide, different brands have those width sizes in different locations in the model numbers of the coil or Air Handler.

Model numbers of each section need to be exact.

“number search came up with 50 pages with 500 options, I kept scanning the options till I found the one with the matching indoor air handler number and that gives me the AHRI reference number. Is there a more efficient way to search the AHRI reference number?”

More model numbers entered the smaller the options, you only entered a partial model number of the outdoor unit only, if you added the Air Handler ( again not the complete number but a good portion it will reduce the options ) If you had a furnace, as an example, and indoor coil and outdoor unit situation, then adding all three ( partial numbers also decreases the options )

The Contractors should have given you the AHRI number, it’s the least they could have done to earn your business IMO. Certainly you can ask them for it, to see if they know how to maneuver the site and see if it matches what you come up with.

Another reason to list those model numbers and even the AHRI number on the contract is we have had HO come here that signed a contract and the Contractor installed different pieces than what was listed without telling the HO. One Contractor installed three different pieces and sizes than what the contract said and never said anything to the HO! ( Furnace, indoor coil and outdoor unit, and the outdoor unit was suppose to be a 2 stage and they installed a single stage outdoor unit, if memory serves me correct. )

 

Many times AHRI puts a * or double ** in place of a digit, that signifies that the letter or number is not important, such as on AR*F which is a partial Goodman model number, as ARUF means it’s a unpainted ( sheetmetal box ) Air Handler, whereas a ARPF is a painted Air Handler, so it’s not important, as long as the complete model number is correct for a match.

 

You said, The Contractors should have given you the AHRI number,********* in my case 3 different contractors with 3 quotes for 2 units each and none mentioned the AHRI number. But, now I will ask.

(Another reason to list those model numbers and even the AHRI number on the contract is we have had HO come here that signed a contract and the Contractor installed different pieces than what was listed without telling the HO. One Contractor installed three different pieces and sizes than what the contract said and never said anything to the HO! ( Furnace, indoor coil and outdoor unit, and the outdoor unit was suppose to be a 2 stage and they installed a single stage outdoor unit, if memory serves me correct. )
That would be horrible. That is very sad that some contractors would do something like this. I guess anything can happen.

To make sure I understood you correctly, to narrow the results, I should type partial numbers of the condenser along with the partial number of the air handler unit. ( I tried that and did not work, do you sperate by a space between the 2 model numbers)


Clearly, the AHRI reference number is important piece of information as you explained to me. For one thing, company A, gave me the specs to the 2Ton unit which is not in production any more as a 17.0 SEER2. but by looking at the AHRI certificate it is listed as 15.2 SEER2. That is a Big difference. and not accurate info on the contract.

I would like to reflect back on an earlier statement you shared in the first replay, "Less complicated system are nice, Is that what you want?" do you mean XR category is less complicated that XL. Is that because, XR units is less expensive to repair or have more attainable parts. What are you referring to as less complicated and what makes it nice?

 

To make sure I understood you correctly, to narrow the results, I should type partial numbers of the condenser along with the partial number of the air handler unit. ( I tried that and did not work, do you sperate by a space between the 2 model numbers)

You add the partial accurate model number of the outdoor unit in the outdoor unit section and you do the same for the indoor unit, add a partial accurate model number in the indoor section of the site, why wouldn’t it work. No need to add the brand in the brand section. What are you entering, what is the two model numbers that don’t work?

is not in production any more as a 17.0 SEER2. but by looking at the AHRI certificate it is listed as 15.2 SEER2

In regards to the 17 SEER2 or if it’s 17 SEER, in fine print it will say “up to 17 SEER” somewhere on the advertising page, meaning depending on indoor selection is what your total SEER, EER and HSPF rating will be. You don’t go by the outdoor unit rating alone, as this Contractor is letting you believe. He should know better than to mislead you. Anything to make a sale, looks like. That’s why he never gave you the AHRI number, he didn’t want you to question why the ratings are lower.

Hit products either Heat Pump or Air Conditioning then pick any outdoor unit it will say “UP TO 17 SEER2 or UP TO 18 SEER2” or UP TO 16 SEER2 does not mean your going to that, you can thou but that depends on what the outdoor unit is matched to in regards to the indoor section. Same with EER2 it’s UP TO a certain number, even HSPF2.

https://www.trane.com/residential/en/

I don’t know what to tell you about which system to go by, but efficiency ratings are one thing I would look at, a longer labor warranty is another. A longer manufacturing warranty is another, price, etc.

 

***You add the partial accurate model number of the outdoor unit in the outdoor unit section and you do the same for the indoor unit, add a partial accurate model number in the indoor section of the site, **** I found out what is going on. I think you are speaking of searching under the quick search criteria where it open a window on the left where you see the outdoor section and the indoor section you are speaking of. I being new to the site was just searching on the first page with the one big box felid to type the model number and circle if I am searching by and AHRI reference number or circle if is by model number. I see what you are talking about now. Ok. I am not just learning how to use this forum, but also how to use the AHRI site.

Good night my friend. Sweet dreams.

 

Yes! the 2nd AHRI site ( post 6 ) is where you can find matches under the Quick Search Criteria, again you don’t need to enter the brand name just the partial model numbers. That site says for Heat Pump applications, there is also another one for Air Conditioning applications.

The 1st AHRI site given you in post #2 is used if you already have AHRI numbers.

If your not satisfied with the 15.2 SEER2 rating ( I believe that’s XL18i AHRI #7559637 ) you can bump up the TEM6 Air Handler .5 ton to a TEMa0b30 and the rating increase to 16 SEER2 and 17 SEER AHRI number 201840486. You can do that to the other models also if you wanted a slightly higher efficiency ratings ( on paper ) for the 3 ton bids as an example you would add 42 ( 3.5 tons ) instead of 36 in the Air Handler model number.

Remember the ace in the hole is choosing a quality Contractor and not the brand as much. So choose you Contractor wisely. Certainly having the ductwork sized correctly to those systems and proper sizing of equipment and install and setting up system to manufacture specific will dictate reliability and comfort and the amount of call backs you make to these Contractors under the labor warranty period to tweak, adjust etc your system down the road not the brand name.

My friend has two fairly new Trane XR16 Heat Pumps in his residence, the outdoor fan motors are made in Vietnam, the trinket parts such as the capacitor(s) compressor contactor are manufactured in either China or Mexico. Chances the reversing valve anssembly and service valves are manufactured in China. The Air Handler and outdoor unit electrical data plates say Assembled in the USA, as nothing is really made/manufactured completely in the USA anymore.

The outdoor unit, all manufacturers make for the most part is the painted sheetmetal box and the coil, that’s about it, the heart of the system the compressor, the brand is Alliance in his and probably your future system which is a joint venture of three conglomerates, Copeland, Lennox and Trane.

Remember by purchasing these two systems your doing your part to keeping the global economy moving forward as several countries have a stake in your system.

Same for the Air Handler, Trane and every other manufacturer makes the painted sheetmetal box and coi, the rest is vendor supplied.

 

Those rating the Contractors received are probably from customers not really knowing anything about what went into the install of their system, a perfect example was you finding out that you’re not getting efficiency ratings on those systems. Once you found out due to AHRI web-site thinking the Contractor gets a ding? HO, don’t really know a high quality install and setup from a less than stellar install, especially if the Air Handler and ductwork is in a attic, out of site, they just know at the moment of their ratings the system is cooling or heating. I would not necessarily put a lot of faith in those reviews. Certainly there is merit in those reviews.

If those HO waited for a year plus before giving reviews the ratings could easily be different.

When my friend purchased his new home in Florida in a cookie cutter community the builder asked for his review of the home almost immediately after moving in, several times actually. I told him to wait up to one year + before giving them a review. He had two call backs on his Heat Pumps almost as soon as he moved in, one was a refrigerant leak that we found due to a sloppy braze joint, the other the condensate drain line was dripping into the auxiliary drain pan, both within a few days after he moved in, he never would have known about the refrigerant leak until the system was not cooling many months later.

The Tech. they sent out did a less than stellar repair work and diagnostic test to see if it was leaking on the refrigerant leak IMO, but to a HO they don’t know what to look at and being a cookie cutter home, his house had numerous sloppy workmanship that he had to call them under the homes warranty. I told him see how long it takes them to schedule and come out and do the repairs and if it’s to your satisfaction.

I asked him after what you found and experienced one+ year later with the house would you have given them the same glowing high reviews that he was planning on giving, if you sent in a review when you 1st moved in, he said no. He got caught up in the newness of the house before the dust settled.

 

Contractors paying for good reviews.

Large contractors
Many trucks with a lot of lettering

Someone has to pay for all that!