[R600a]

Nothing would surprise me from that manufacturer. Lol.

 

[BBeerme]

I've seen some crazy stuff in the field. Most is easy or at least somewhat easy to explain. Something like what you have, and the explanations you have given, if I was the tech in front of you I'd probably just shrug my shoulders, give my recommendation, and let you make the decision to go with it or not. Then say good bye.

Of course, before leaving, I would document everything in writing. With enough detail so there would be nothing questionable if/when read in the future. There are a few reasons for that. One reason that may not be so obvious would be that way I could put it out of my mind. But if questioned months or a year later, I'd ask the office to see my invoicing, and it would all be there without me having to remember anything.

Obviously, if a fellow tech went out and claims were being made, and if he was smart enough, he'd also ask for prior invoicing. And all of his questions would be answered without anybody needing to say a word.

Just trying to let you know, I would've made my recommendation, and been gone long ago. And you would receive the same invoicing I put on record to make whatever decision you wanted when ever you wanted. At your leisure.

Could very well be such as that.
I bought it new-in-carton at the wholesaler and installed it myself. It had never been installed (no evidence of brazing on the ports, shipping & packing in place, etc.)

But who knows if it was a return where the distributor or wholesaler noticed a missing fan or something. Or, perhaps there was a bad batch. This was the introductory model when Haier first started selling residential units in the U. S.. A mystery never to be solved.

 

[PJB1]

Of course, before leaving, I would document everything in writing.

Absolutely Wise! C.Y.B.!
Even though I worked for a company on primarily company owned equipment at company owned facilities; everything got documented on the signed work order.

Sometimes I'd do a service and later another tech was there for something else saying that I didn't do "this or that". My job was documented in detail.

And, we had the "Manager Factor".
All too often the manager of the facility or department would decline a job, perhaps to keep his or her costs low. I'd document it on the work order and get a signature.

For homeowners, all I have done are friends and family freebies. No money was involved, so things were certainly more informal. Were it a paid service call, documentation is wise as you said above.

And It Goes Both Ways:
A friend called a company for AC service. The unit was low on refrigerant. The tech did not check for leaks. He put 410a in to top off the R-22. The owner paid for R-22, leak repair, vacuum and filter drier.

The tech claimed he fixed a leak, changed the drier and charged with R-22. No paperwork to back him up.

But the proof was that the doorbell camera, by chance, recorded the service call and the 410a going into the unit. And the filter-drier was one I installed and dated 10 years earlier & still there. Plus the system was empty 2 days later when I go there. (Cracked joint on a condenser tubing u-bend)

When I got back in town and checked the unit, the compressor valves were shot and the system was a gummed up mess.

 

[BBeerme]

Yeah, I don't know why techs lie, there's simply no reason for it. I guess one reason is they don't care or give a sh!t about what they are doing, they're just waiting for payday each week, doesn't matter how they get there.

Absolutely Wise! C.Y.B.!
Even though I worked for a company on primarily company owned equipment at company owned facilities; everything got documented on the signed work order.

Sometimes I'd do a service and later another tech was there for something else saying that I didn't do "this or that". My job was documented in detail.

And, we had the "Manager Factor".
All too often the manager of the facility or department would decline a job, perhaps to keep his or her costs low. I'd document it on the work order and get a signature.

For homeowners, all I have done are friends and family freebies. No money was involved, so things were certainly more informal. Were it a paid service call, documentation is wise as you said above.

And It Goes Both Ways:
A friend called a company for AC service. The unit was low on refrigerant. The tech did not check for leaks. He put 410a in to top off the R-22. The owner paid for R-22, leak repair, vacuum and filter drier.

The tech claimed he fixed a leak, changed the drier and charged with R-22. No paperwork to back him up.

But the proof was that the doorbell camera, by chance, recorded the service call and the 410a going into the unit. And the filter-drier was one I installed and dated 10 years earlier & still there. Plus the system was empty 2 days later when I go there. (Cracked joint on a condenser tubing u-bend)

When I got back in town and checked the unit, the compressor valves were shot and the system was a gummed up mess.

 

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Hi All,
In my career I worked only chillers, larger refrigeration (usually R-717) and rarely some rooftop combination units (r-22 and R-500 mostly) The only residential space cooling unit I have experience with is the central air at my home (besides a few long forgotten family and friend freebies years ago).

I noticed recently that the outdoor fan (condensing fan in cooling mode) on my 19 year old heat pump moves air in the top and out the sides. In other words, the air comes down and pushes through the condenser coils (evaporator in heating mode) from inside to out.

The manual for the unit is mute. I asked the manufacturer and received no reply (Haier) But the motor and fan blade are clearly marked for rotation and are original. (Fan blade high edge is leading looking down from top.)

Out of curiosity, have any of you encountered a residential condensing fan that draws air in the top and out through the coils from inside to out? Am I crazy or is this air flow unusual?

And, if I may ask another question: I do not have much experience with single phase PSC motors. Everything at work was 3-phase. The capacitor on the outdoor fan motor is 8 mfd. That is an odd value. To have a spare on hand, easily obtained are 7.5 or ten. Am I correct that ten is a wiser choice than the 7.5? (25% over versus 7% under)

Thanks For Helping!
Paul

The motor manufacture selected capacitor is always the superior choice. But if left on my own without external data I would use the capacitor which gave the lowest motor amps while showing an operating voltage of less than the capacitor rated limit.

 

[hvacker]

I could understand one thing wrong like the wrong motor. But with both looking like they match
I would look at how it performs. Are pressures about right? Usually a prop fan won't perform well
with restrictions. If performance is about right the manufacturer might have got a deal on motors.
Like make it work.
I wouldn't worry about slight deviations from caps. Lots of caps out there are not necessarily on target
and still work predictability.

 

[PJB1]

First things first- assuming the air gets sucked in and then discharges up.
Then the motor/blade/motor bracket assembly should provide the proper set up.
So CW/CCW rotation doesn't matter.
HUB location does not matter. In the 'I need it now' Service/Emergency Business ,I will get the unit up and running.
I was taught are 3 sections/areas/parts to figure out the blade rotation and air movement going in the proper direction.
Those (to me) 'famous' word are 'CUT,SCOOP,THROW '

I like Cut, Scoop, Throw. That's a good way to picture it
I always did the Sandbox Analogy when my dyslexia kicks in. Picture the blade in a sandbox. Rotate it in the direction is was neat to turn. It should screw itself into the sand.

On mine, it will do exactly that with the existing CCW motor. Unfortunately, the blade pushes air down. I'm pretty well convinced that Haier installed the wrong blade.

 

[PJB1]

UPDATE-
I bought a "parallel universe" opposite blade for Goodman/Amana with the same pitch, blade count and diameter, but the scoop is the opposite direction. With the existing CCW motor, it will draw ambient air in across the coils and push air out the top. (As the illustrations show in the manual Rundawg generously supplied above.)

Plotting the new blade on a Fan Curve shows that the Brake HP is a little higher than motor HP (1/3) at the current 1075 rpm. If full load amps are over motor spec., I'll try it at a one of the lower motor RPM choices, which both fall into the proper Brake HP for the motor. Hopefully head pressure and liquid column will remain good.

The only other glitch is that the new blade is steel. The old was aluminum. The new will be heavier, but on a vertical shaft I don't think it will matter for the motor bearings. (Cheap sleeve bearing motor).

A thirty dollar gamble...

 

[hvacker]

If it works, don't fix it. Kinda of my thoughts.
Thinking of all the different ways oil burners were last century. In shots, up shots,
rotary wall flame. down shots, pot burners etc. Lots of stuff was tried and efficiency
didn't always win. Maybe this fits in with "Lets try this".
I wonder if the manufacture got a deal on motors and got fan blades to match?

 

[PJB1]

I installed the new blade on the existing motor so that the air is now drawn in the sides and discharges up and out.

I made a mistake measuring the old (backwards flow) blade. The pitch is 27-degrees. The new one is 30, so I expected amperage troubles with the motor.

Oddly, the amperage on the medium (950 rpm) and on the high (1075 rpm) setting were a little below motor label specification (which differs from unit rating plate). On low (850 rpm), it had trouble starting the rotation.

On Medium speed, superheat & subcooling were fine thanks to the TXV, but head pressure was a little high using the "old timer" method of adding 25 to ambient temperature entering the condenser. (12 SEER unit).

Changing to High speed sent the head pressure to good (22 degrees above ambient) and the other parameters remained good.

The Haier unit has no information about what superheat or subcooling should be, so I used what the manufacturer of the indoor unit calls out. (Energy Saving Products RCM-30 module & HV-70 BU air handler)

Oddly, on Medium the motor drew more amps than on High speed. I honestly don't know why unless the motor had trouble spinning. It sure was beautifully quiet on Medium.

The summary is that the flow is now like it is on the rest of the units in the world. The pressures and temperatures are all good. Motor amperage is a little below rating. And, the ambient noise is noticeably lower.

Thank You All! once again for helping me learn about residential units and air flow. I very much appreciate it.
Paul