[defektes]

Hello Everyone,

2 weeks ago I had a local company replace a old Goodman CKJ60-1C 5 ton (air handler was gmp5 or somthing similair) with a new Goodman GSX140601 ac , gm9s800805 furn, and chpf4860d6 coil.

Old unit had a failed compressor and was 22 years old.

Home is 1900 sq ft in Az, and build in 1999. Old unit worked flawless, never an issue or cooling problem. My wife and I usually keep the home at 72 during day and 68 at night. Even when it was 120 out it would cool and maintain.

When it was 114 last week the unit would not keep the house below 80, it runs 24/7 and wont cool. Even yesterday at 105 would not cool below 78. We have to pre cool the house at night and leave it on just to prevent the home from warming to 80 degrees. I even got my master bed and bath closed off with portables to keep cool. So its not even cooling the whole 1900 sq ft. My electric bills are skyrocketing, please asny info is welcome. HVAC co has been out multiple times with no success.

Thanks

 

[pecmsg]

Time to get a different contractor to review the entire install!

 

[ehsx]

Time to get a different contractor to review the entire install!

X2

 

[defektes]

X2

Thank you, they are taking another look today. If there is no resolution I will have another company take a look.

This new unit should offer the same performance for the most part, correct?

 

[ehsx]

Capacity should be nearly same, efficiency better.

 

[BNME8EZ]

Thank you, they are taking another look today. If there is no resolution I will have another company take a look.

This new unit should offer the same performance for the most part, correct?

Not necessarily. Newer equipment often times has smaller compressors to meet efficiency standards, so your 5 Ton system may only be rated for 57,000 instead of 60,000 which is what your old one was probably closer to.

Add to that if they made bad adaptor fittings, didn't get duct sealed well and possible insulation problems and you have an issue where the system won't keep up.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

What’s the temperature difference between a supply register and a return grille closet to the coil, once system has been running 15+ minutes before taking readings using a accurate thermometer ( not IR gun )

If they never installed a field install TXV and your running a piston, who’s to say the piston size is correct? Your suppose to match the piston to the outdoor unit, and not necessarily use the piston that came with the coil.

Your coil looks to be 24” wide if so what is the width of the furnace, 21” wide or 24” wide.

Is the coil mounted similar to the ones on page 2

https://documents.alpinehomeair.com/product/IO-285L.pdf

 

[pacnw]

68° for comfort cooling is asking for issues.

Area specific, but newer systems CAN be designed to 20° below NORMAL ambient temperature and enforced by AHJ(authority having jurisdiction). Maybe this is not your case.

Your case DOES seem to indicate an issue, though.
If original installing contractor can't/won't deal with it a new tech/company is needed to get to the bottom of this.

 

[defektes]

One of the things the company tried in previous visits was the install a transition in between the coil and heater. So it is mounted as pictured, not sure on temps.

This helped but did not solve issue.

Tech today did a thorough investigation today with Goodman on the phone. Tech found super high compressor amps with no cause but stated his pressures were good. He also verified with goodman the correct piston was used. They decided to increase my blower speed and he said his pressures dropped. He topped off unit and rechecked compressor amps and they normalized.

He said give it a day and to call if it continues to have problems.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

“Tech today did a thorough investigation today”


Thorough investigation? you think he would have taken a simple temperature reading difference to see the split. Can’t you do that? Is there a filter drier on the lineset somewhere as Goodman already installs one inside the outdoor unit from the factory. It doesn’t really need another one. If he added refrigerant and changed CFM then either the person did not do the final field refrigerant charge and set the CFM correctly to start with or this Tech. is trying anything at this stage.

If this Tech. Did not install and start system how did he determine piston is sized correctly, was the piston size magic marker on the Air Handler or he physically recovered the charge and pulled piston out and confirmed with Goodman Technical Rep. did the Tech. Confirm there is no non condensibles in system. How was the final field refrigerant charge determined?

What does the invoices say on what was done up to this point?

There is no hot ambient air being pulled into the return duct and mixing with the room return?

Here’s a startup/commissioning report they should have done on initial startup. Did they do one?

https://www.energystar.gov/sites/de...ent/National HVAC Commissioning Checklist ENERGY STAR Certified Homes_Rev10.pdf

They should have checked the static pressures, make sure final field refrigerant charge is to manufacturers specifications, having proper ductwork, CFM set etc.

Was new lineset run or existing lineset used, if new any kinks in lineset?

Worst case they can recover total charge and weight it, and compare to weight method, remove piston and install a OEM correctly sized TXV then charge to subcooling with virgin refrigerant after setting CFM? Compare temperature difference from piston to TXV?

 

[kdean1]

I know AZ is hot, but 5 tons sounds like a lot of capacity. My 1800 sq. ft. home has a 2 ton system.
The industry standard indoor design target is 75*. Your targets of 72* & 68* may be unrealistic.

 

[defektes]

Invoice shows this:


"Found system wasn’t
cooling efficiently and
overamping on outside unit.
System had a very low
static on the supply side.
Turned up blower speed by
programming the board
with a Goodman rep from
04 to 08. Static increased
and pressures showed to
be a little low having high
superheat. Added half a
pound of 410 sh went from
26 to 9. Temp split started
at 25 and now dialed in to a
perfect 20 degrees.
Informed customer of
changes and told them to
try it out. "

Not sure how other items verified.

Compressor seems to be randomly shutting off and restarting at the same time thermostat clicks. This has happened since they installed it, forgot to mention in op.

Existing line set was re used.

 

[pacnw]

Invoice shows this:


"Found system wasn’t
cooling efficiently and
overamping on outside unit.
System had a very low
static on the supply side.
Turned up blower speed by
programming the board
with a Goodman rep from
04 to 08. Static increased
and pressures showed to
be a little low having high
superheat. Added half a
pound of 410 sh went from
26 to 9. Temp split started
at 25 and now dialed in to a
perfect 20 degrees.
Informed customer of
changes and told them to
try it out. "

Not sure how other items verified.

Compressor seems to be randomly shutting off and restarting at the same time thermostat clicks. This has happened since they installed it, forgot to mention in op.

Existing line set was re used.

SH is needed, but on a txv you NEED to know the SC(subcooling).
Also, Goodman may require a specific procedure on initial start up to set the SH and ONLY after that has been done can the charge be set.
See page 9:
https://hvacdirect.com/media/hvac/pdf/GSX14-in.pdf

There no longer is a "perfect" one temperature!! On average I am looking for 18° - 22° and that is based on multiple factors/conditions and can be in or out of that range in the same house depending on those factors/conditions at time of checking.

Tech support is only as good as the techs on the phone, on both sides of that phone.

I'll give you a perfect example from my experience:
New install and multiple visits by others. I get a call from installer after he replaced a txv that was condemned by others. Unit is doing the same thing as before. He is giving me info that is off from what I would expect.
Long story shortened to a shorter one, I finally had him call mfr tech support and they had a bad blower motor.
Despite what he was telling me, the blower motor, an ECM, was never ramping up. The air flow was too low.
When this was installed, the motor tried to overcome poor duct work, ramped up so high it hit a safety and dropped to a "safe" speed.
Tech was never measuring air flow and just ASSUMING air flow was correct and was changing when he made changes.

Moral of the story, do NOT assume and measure everything that CAN alter your info.

 

[defektes]

Just a update, house has been maintaining 70 degrees today which is what we have it set to.

Temps outside currently are 105 but was about 100 and overcast earlier.

Tommorow will be the real test estimated temps of 111.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

Temps outside currently are 105 but was about 100 and overcast earlier.

Tommorow will be the real test estimated temps of 111.

How has it been working in the 111+ degree day, if OK then thinking whoever started it and set it up initially dropped the ball?

 

[defektes]

How has it been working in the 111+ degree day, if OK then thinking whoever started it and set it up initially dropped the ball?

Seems to be doing ok.

Im waiting for a 115 to 120 day to really be sure. But so far so good.