Ok so I'm looking for input here I have a carrier infinity tn6 at home. When I first installed it I set my thermostat to 68 during home and 60 when at work. After my propane was draining every month during dec, jan, feb. (only 300 gallon tank). I started to get frustrated and I said screw it I'm putting it at 65 in the house and not touching a thing. I feel I use less propane and my furnace only runs in low fire. Ive talked to techs around shop theres comments from both sides basically the set back side are saying no more than a 5 degree difference. The other side says its a scam from government put it at one temp leave it. My personal thoughts are wether your thermostat is 65 or 70 your furnace will come on once the home drops one degree depending on insulation your furnace should run in low fire (if you have two stage turn) for a short time. So why would I want to set my thermostat back and have the furnace jump into high fire? Lets say when your thermostat is set back from 65 to 60 it will still run the same time every time your home drops a degree. Please thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated not only for me but what I can share with customers when they ask.
Is setting back your thermostat worth it?
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johoff34
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Ok so I'm looking for input here I have a carrier infinity tn6 at home. When I first installed it I set my thermostat to 68 during home and 60 when at work. After my propane was draining every month during dec, jan, feb. (only 300 gallon tank). I started to get frustrated and I said screw it I'm putting it at 65 in the house and not touching a thing. I feel I use less propane and my furnace only runs in low fire. Ive talked to techs around shop theres comments from both sides basically the set back side are saying no more than a 5 degree difference. The other side says its a scam from government put it at one temp leave it. My personal thoughts are wether your thermostat is 65 or 70 your furnace will come on once the home drops one degree depending on insulation your furnace should run in low fire (if you have two stage turn) for a short time. So why would I want to set my thermostat back and have the furnace jump into high fire? Lets say when your thermostat is set back from 65 to 60 it will still run the same time every time your home drops a degree. Please thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated not only for me but what I can share with customers when they ask.
I tell customers to set back no more than 2-3 is they must.. Better it runs in low heat for a longer cycle than jumping to high heat to bring the house to temp.. The infinity will adjust it's run times and staging based on previous cycles therefore the longer the set back is in place the quicker it will jump to high heat and run... This will use the most energy and fuel... Thats my opinion
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In the heating season with heat pumps and multi-stage furnaces, set and forget. The only time when you might want to set it lower than normal is if you leave town for a week or so. Otherwise, you use a lot more energy/fuel to get the inside temperature up to the set point.
Agreed. with heat pump and two stage, set it and leave it. I had thought about this this past winter actually. If you're running a single stage furnace I don't see setting back temps as a problem depending on the home and the heat loss. I'm sure there are many homes out there that a 5 degree set back will result in very few cycles in the average 8-9 hours a house is vacant. In other homes a 5 degree set back will result in just as many cycles as it would if left at the normal setting only resulting in a short down time when you first leave home and a longer run time as it attempts to warm everything back up the 5 degrees. How "tight" the home is would be a big determining factor IMO.
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Common sense says a lower heating setpoint should use less gas than a higher one. That means a setback should be saving you money.
Also, most of the stuff I've read on this site has said that high efficient furnaces are most efficient in high stage. According to most of the NCI guys on here, first stage is usually less efficient.
A constant temperature setting will be more comfortable, but I don't see how it could use less gas as having a setback.
Also, most of the stuff I've read on this site has said that high efficient furnaces are most efficient in high stage. According to most of the NCI guys on here, first stage is usually less efficient.
A constant temperature setting will be more comfortable, but I don't see how it could use less gas as having a setback.
For heat pumps I set and forget. You don't want backup heat kicking on. And off cycles help with defrost.
For furnaces, I like to use a Honeywell pro 8000, or something like a ecobee. They have an adjustable (or "learnable") recovery rates. So only 1st stage should come on. You should see peak efficiency. The important part is not to kick into high fire at all. If you do, you'll most likely short cycle, loosing significant performance.
(Not related to the thermostat, but properly sized equipment makes the biggest difference)
For furnaces, I like to use a Honeywell pro 8000, or something like a ecobee. They have an adjustable (or "learnable") recovery rates. So only 1st stage should come on. You should see peak efficiency. The important part is not to kick into high fire at all. If you do, you'll most likely short cycle, loosing significant performance.
(Not related to the thermostat, but properly sized equipment makes the biggest difference)
Agree.
I was talking with a Rep when this variable speed equipment first came out to Res and his reply was that the customer is kind of freaked about it RUNNING for like 23 out of 24 hrs a day.
Yes it does but, Are you Comfortable? Yes. That's "Just how it is".
I look back to my Refrig day's and a customer would actually cut his Cooler off at Night and back on in the Morning.
WTH??
It don't freeze up that way.
:Faint:
I was talking with a Rep when this variable speed equipment first came out to Res and his reply was that the customer is kind of freaked about it RUNNING for like 23 out of 24 hrs a day.
Yes it does but, Are you Comfortable? Yes. That's "Just how it is".
I look back to my Refrig day's and a customer would actually cut his Cooler off at Night and back on in the Morning.
WTH??
It don't freeze up that way.
:Faint:
I actually killed the "Smart Recovery" on mine as their "learning" has been an issue when the Weather is flip flopping.
A stat with an ODS is a MUST as until the stat Manuf's make an "adjustable" 2nd stage "time on" feature,which would be nice for h/p's when you reach Balance Point,in order to cycle the unit in unusually low/high outdoor temp's.
A stat with an ODS is a MUST as until the stat Manuf's make an "adjustable" 2nd stage "time on" feature,which would be nice for h/p's when you reach Balance Point,in order to cycle the unit in unusually low/high outdoor temp's.
If you set your stat back 5 degrees. The amount of times the furnace needs to run are fewer, and shorter periods of time. So it will save money. When it comes out of set back. It won't use as much fuel to come back up to temp as it would have to maintained that same higher temp.
Thanks for all the input so far ! I disagree that the low fire on two stage furnaces is just spinning its wheels. My furnace only runs in low fire and reaches temp at my home very quickly. I think the spinning wheels comes in affect when you go into modulating furnaces. Like carrier mn7 I'm not sold on these furnaces yet I feel you have to have a super tight house for it to pay off. Otherwise you're just putting a candle in your heat exchangers prob not good for them. Two stage great product modulating great product only in certain situations in my opinion.
The modulating furnaces need a modulating thermostat. Otherwise you're just getting the 1 or 2 stages that your thermostat can handle. The modulating thermostats use PID, so that it ramps to keep the temperature error constant. It is very efficient.
The lower you set the thermostat the more money you will save. There are limits to how low you should go but this is for condensation and comfort issues.
Your house loses btu’s and your furnace creates btu’s. The fewer btu’s your home loses the fewer btu’s the furnace will have to create. If you set your thermostat back 10 degrees for 8 hours during the day your house will lose fewer btu’s because there is now less of a temperature difference between the home and the outdoors. When you have a lower temperature difference the transfer of heat from the home to the outdoors slows down, resulting in the home losing fewer btu’s. That’s how you save money with a setback thermostat.
There is no government conspiracy. And if you aren’t seeing any savings you probably aren’t setting it low enough for a long enough period of time.
I’m surprised by how many technicians believe that furnaces somehow work “harder” when you setback the thermostat. Furnaces create heat measured in btu’s. How can anyone believe that a house set at a warmer indoor temperature is going to lose fewer btu’s than a house being maintained at a lower temperature? In essence that is what your claiming when you say that setting the thermostat back 5 degrees is ok but setting it back 10 degrees will waste gas. Or that not setting it back at all uses less gas.
If you think furnaces are more efficient in low fire than high fire I have a question for you. If this is the case than why do manufactures rate their furnaces efficiency based on high fire? When it comes to marketing a product every manufacture is going to advertise the best features of their product. If their furnace was more efficient in low fire then they would advertise its efficiency in low fire. But they don’t tell you how efficient it is in low fire, only high fire. This alone should tip you off that furnaces are less efficient in low fire.
It’s better to make up your homes btu loss in the furnaces most efficient stage of heat, which is high fire. By using a setback thermostat you reduce how many btu's the home loses during the day and then run the furnace in its most efficient stage to get the house back to the desired temperature. Conversely if you keep your home at a constant temperature the home will lose more btu's and run more often on the less efficient lower stages of heat.
Your house loses btu’s and your furnace creates btu’s. The fewer btu’s your home loses the fewer btu’s the furnace will have to create. If you set your thermostat back 10 degrees for 8 hours during the day your house will lose fewer btu’s because there is now less of a temperature difference between the home and the outdoors. When you have a lower temperature difference the transfer of heat from the home to the outdoors slows down, resulting in the home losing fewer btu’s. That’s how you save money with a setback thermostat.
There is no government conspiracy. And if you aren’t seeing any savings you probably aren’t setting it low enough for a long enough period of time.
I’m surprised by how many technicians believe that furnaces somehow work “harder” when you setback the thermostat. Furnaces create heat measured in btu’s. How can anyone believe that a house set at a warmer indoor temperature is going to lose fewer btu’s than a house being maintained at a lower temperature? In essence that is what your claiming when you say that setting the thermostat back 5 degrees is ok but setting it back 10 degrees will waste gas. Or that not setting it back at all uses less gas.
If you think furnaces are more efficient in low fire than high fire I have a question for you. If this is the case than why do manufactures rate their furnaces efficiency based on high fire? When it comes to marketing a product every manufacture is going to advertise the best features of their product. If their furnace was more efficient in low fire then they would advertise its efficiency in low fire. But they don’t tell you how efficient it is in low fire, only high fire. This alone should tip you off that furnaces are less efficient in low fire.
It’s better to make up your homes btu loss in the furnaces most efficient stage of heat, which is high fire. By using a setback thermostat you reduce how many btu's the home loses during the day and then run the furnace in its most efficient stage to get the house back to the desired temperature. Conversely if you keep your home at a constant temperature the home will lose more btu's and run more often on the less efficient lower stages of heat.
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I'm with Wild. I'm also baffled by the amount of people here who believe it cost's more to have a setback programmed into the thermostat.
The ONLY way it should cost more is if you have a dual fuel system, and running on high stage forces the heat strips to come on. Otherwise, in all other situations that I can think of, a setback should save you money.
There are certainly other situations where having a setback isn't recommended, but it isn't because it won't save you money.
The ONLY way it should cost more is if you have a dual fuel system, and running on high stage forces the heat strips to come on. Otherwise, in all other situations that I can think of, a setback should save you money.
There are certainly other situations where having a setback isn't recommended, but it isn't because it won't save you money.
I have no scientific information in front of me, however I suspect that a Set back would save energy.
Will it save money not so sure about that, how much energy would I have to save to pay for the Latest And Greatest thermostat.
If I took the same amount of money and sealed up the electrical outlets in my house I suspect that I'd have more in the bank at the end of the year.
Also as a side note I always thought that I was in the comfort business, most of my clients are retired and not so sure that they want to sit around in a 60 degree house all day and lay under so many blankets at nite that they can't move, they worked hard for their money and if they want to spend an extra 50 dollars a year to enjoy some comfort then more power to them.
Indecently I have an old round gold Honeywell on my wall and keep the house just above 70 degrees day and nite. Haven't had to put batteries in it in 40 years and it doesn't rob power from the furnace, have no need to adjust it with my phone it is sort of a set and forget it type of thing. I suspect it will work fine for another 20 years can anyone say that about what is being installed today?
Will it save money not so sure about that, how much energy would I have to save to pay for the Latest And Greatest thermostat.
If I took the same amount of money and sealed up the electrical outlets in my house I suspect that I'd have more in the bank at the end of the year.
Also as a side note I always thought that I was in the comfort business, most of my clients are retired and not so sure that they want to sit around in a 60 degree house all day and lay under so many blankets at nite that they can't move, they worked hard for their money and if they want to spend an extra 50 dollars a year to enjoy some comfort then more power to them.
Indecently I have an old round gold Honeywell on my wall and keep the house just above 70 degrees day and nite. Haven't had to put batteries in it in 40 years and it doesn't rob power from the furnace, have no need to adjust it with my phone it is sort of a set and forget it type of thing. I suspect it will work fine for another 20 years can anyone say that about what is being installed today?
They built them to last. There's something to say about simplicity. But if you wanted to save "energy," setback is one of a million methods. I don't have proof either way for saving "money" if you count ROI. Another energy saver is to ride your bicycle to your jobs, tool bag and all. There's trade offs for most energy saving methods, it just depends on what you can live with, and what is practical.
But once it's satisfied wouldn't it come on for the same period of time weather it's 65 or 70? What I generally recommend to customers is find a comfortable temp for the season and leave it there whether they're home for the day or not. Especially for AC because I've had customers that put the temp up to 80 when they're at work and then call when it's only 79 2 hours after they're home. So in my mind I see them using more energy to try to bring the house down 10 degrees everyday than if they just let it satisfy and come on for a short time all day. I may be wrong but that's my opinion on the matter. I have no evidence to back this up but I really feel that leaving a constant setting is more efficient than adjusting it as you come and go
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