No more sensitive to moisture then a single or 2 stage gas valve.

 

You can eliminate that contractor.

Depending on the layout of the ductwork, the modulating furnace can be either a great choice or a dissapointment.

In som scenarios when the unit is in low fire the velocity of the air is not high enough to deliver the correct CFM to remote locations.

 

I agree with the contractor. The more frills, the more expensive, more likely to fail, more expensive to repair/replace. Need I say anything more than ECM/VS motors?

Unless you are hell bent on saving the planet, live in a very cold climate and absoultely need the comparatively little savings you'll garner; leave that high end stuff alone. One expensive repair and your savings are gone. Even if the parts are warrantied for ten years, you'll still pay the labor. Along with the more expensive gas valve, there is the more expensive blower motor and more expensive control board and technology to make it all happen.

One could argue the comfort factor...however that's not nearly enough to sway me...along with most folks.

 

" the gas valve is sensitive to moisture"

The number 1 issue and the cause of 90 percent of the failures of the module on VS/ECM is directly related to poor airflow issues that are not addressed by the contractor, or is created by the contractor applying a variable speed motor to compensate for duct and airflow deficiencies.

 

The company I work for has installed hundreds of modulating furnaces and the failure rate on the modulating valves is no different than single and 2 stage valves. The failure rate is virtually zero. I would put a mod in my house any day. If you live in an igloo with no modulation in outdoor temp then it does not make sense otherwise let it modulate with outdoor temp as designed.

 

I have had a Rheem mod in my own house since 2007. Awesome furnace. Only issue I have had was a failure of the pressure switch last season. Keeps the house very comfortable all winter.

 

Rheem has had their Mod furnace out for 20 years or so now. All other brands are less then 10 years for their mod furnace. Failures are few.

Its not the gas valve or VS blower that has caused any trouble with mod furnaces. Its actually been the pressure switches that have caused problems when the other brands first came out with their mods.

I have only ever changed out 2 bad VS motors(1 was on a 2 stage furnace, the other on an air handler). I have changed out several bad VS modules(high static in almost all causes). Takes less then 30 minutes. The module is a lot cheaper then the VS motor.

 

I sell more ECM furnaces than PSC furnaces... and almost never have issues with them. The key is good ductwork.

Now am I providing value to my customers if I do not explain ductwork and quote fixing the ductwork (at least adding some return) when we put a new system in? Simply fixing the ductwork (maybe as simple as adding a 10" return in the hall or an 8" return in the far master bedroom) will smooth out airflow and take the load off the ECM motor. Sometimes we need to add a supply to that hot/cold place in the far end of the house... Between more return and sometimes more supply; the TESP is lowered enough to avoid killing an ECM module.

As noted above by others: most ECM failures (that is, VS as well as X-13) are modules. One can field repair the module when it is out/warranty if they want to learn how to... it is almost always the same part in the module.

As to gas valves and boards and such... yeah on a MOD furnace they cost a bit more. They also do not fail as much with a quality install.

SOOO, IMO the difference is between an 'economy' install and a quality install. Sure, the customer will pay more... yet they get more value for their $$$. IMO when one learns to sell value rather than price... they do their customers as well as themselves a favor.

Just my $0.02...

 

Valid points. If the ductwork is worthy or will be modified as needed for extra costs, the buyer lives in a climate with appropriate heating demands, is willing and able to pay the increased up front costs, has comfort demands that exceed a simpler 2 stage 80%, doesn't mind accomodating the pvc vents, will keep up the extra maintenance needed for keeping the drain clear...all else being equal - go for it.

 

Remember. the duct moderations that you would do for a VS blower. Are the same duct moderations that should be done for a PSC blower also. Other wise, the customer isn't getting the 80% efficiency they were sold either.

Don't know of any companies that charge customer more to PM a condensing furnace then a 80% furnace. So no increase in cost to the customer for annual checks.

Many times, running the PVC vent is not intrusive to the homes looks.

 

Not all mods are the same.
They say the Rheem is very nice. Never seen one.
The brand we sell has not impressed me at all.

 

In my opinion I would go with the Rheem

 

I'm seriously thinking about going mod 98% and 18 seer 2 stage hp dual fuel at a house just because i can at the house I'm about to buy.

 

Hmmm... Just my $0.02...

I am not sure I would do the DF (rather straight air)... other than that, sounds like a GREAT system! I assume you will use a quality media filter system and custom engineer your ductwork...

 

Just FYI:

I was at a Rheem product update earlier this week (Apex Supply for you Atlanta folks).

The Rheem MOD furnace is going to be upgraded soon... the new one should be here sometime in the Spring. Unit will be 98% efficient, and you can install the SAME BOX in all 4 applications (up, left, right, down flow).

I saw the new 92% (basic model) at the supply house, they did a nice job on it... it looks good!

If it were me and I could wait until the spring... I would.

On the subject of Rheem vs others... The Rheem is the true modulating furnace, it requires a special T-stat and does not work well with zoning. Other than that, IMO it is the best MOD furnace available.

 

Granted, this is harder to sell... however:

Energy costs are low now... however when the economy starts ticking again that will not be the case. A person who thinks ahead will understand the value of condensing furnaces.

The point to sell this equipment on is comfort! And yeah, it is sometimes an uphill road. One needs to find something the customer will appreciate, and play on that. Sooner or later they get the message.
I have 'done the math' of how much a $1000 upgrade costs spread over 15 years... work it down to months and it is pocket change. Then discuss if it is worth, say, $5 mos to enjoy a comfortable house rather than a hot/cold and humid/dry house? Then it is easy to make it $2K and $10/mos. When folks see it as a small number... it is easy to swallow.

And do not forget to explain tax credits and local utility credits... That $2000 upgrade may end up costing less than $1200, which is something like $6/mos.