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you should see me at the dragstrip with my nitrous bottle

on the colder nights, i need to torch the hell out of the nitrous bottle to get the operating pressure up

there ARE times when a torch is NEEDED to HEAT a refrigerant bottle

it CAN lead to a DANGEROUS event, i could write a book on how dangerous it COULD be

if YOU are a dangerous person, DON'T TRY IT!


.

 

You dont need articles ,you just need common sense to know its #@&ing dumb idea ?????

 

Well... you won't get much advice here... none of us ever have, or ever will do such a thing! lol

 

Gentlemen,
I belive I'm misunderstood here. I never have and never will attempt to do such a thing. Seven years of saftey trainning in the military taught me that. I'm not looking for any advive.

In the past I have seen and read news articles of men being killed from attempting this. There was an article once of a tech warming a drum of R-12 in hot water. The fire department found him the next day in the MER, deceased. I belive it was in REF NEWS?? I've been checking there site but can't find it?
I need to locate some of these articles so I can distribute them to the ignorant.

 

I have had refrigerant bottles blow the rupture disc sitting in the back of the truck on a hot Texas summer day. No one died. The bottle was not even disturbed. I am not going to get too upset about internet stories of carnage from exploding bottles.

I'm with Airmechanical on this one.

 

Good luck with finding articles.

In the interim, perhaps you could get them to read the MSDS, where it says not to expose to flame or expose cylinders to temperatures above 120F.

Having said that, I will continue to heat bottles with a heat gun as needed, being extremely careful not to get the bottle above 110F.

 

Here's part of an article from the St. Louis Post Dispatch (stltoday.com). IIRC, the guy was nearly decapitated.

SOURCE:
PUBLICATION: St. Louis Post-Dispatch (MO)
DATE: January 24, 2003
SECTION: METRO
EDITION: FIVE STAR LATE LIFT
PAGE: B2
WORD COUNT: 491
ID#: 0301240494
ST. LOUIS

Man recharging refrigeration system is killed when freon tank explodes

A tank of freon coolant exploded Thursday morning in the kitchen of the Lynch Street Bistro, 1031 Lynch Street, instantly killing a man using it to recharge the refrigeration system, authorities said. The victim, Ken Elder Jr., 40, of Waterloo, was a contractor hired to do the work.

It happened about 10:30 a.m., a half-hour before the restaurant was scheduled to open for lunch.

 

the msds and the bottle say not to heat with open flame. The sign says speed limit 55 MPH how many of you stayed under 55. I use open flame but I make sure the bottle is open, and make sure I can always put my hand on bottle (meaning not to hot).

 

I keep a Heat Gun in my bag... I have blown heat into the box but don't just heat one place with the 1300 degree heat! Yea, a heat gun will blow'em up too!

 

I had my van catch a fire once, all the freon cylinders blew the disc. tanks didnt go anywhere.

 

Tech support told me to torch the receiver tank to check the level.

 

This is a common practice. I do it frequently.

I also have exactly ZERO problems with heating a refrigerant cylinder with a torch. I have used both propane and MAPP torches to do this on a number of occasions. Bottle blankies I just don't have the room for, a bucket of hot water is exactly the WRONG thing to use on a -10*F rooftop with a gusting wind. This is if you like keeping fingers.

I fail to see how a small torch will put out enough heat to cause the pressure in the cylinder to rise to the point of dangerous. It takes long enough to heat the cylinder to get enough pressure to charge with and that is with bypassing the low pressure safety and pouring the heat to the cylinder to get gas in.

Now, I can see it being dangerous, but using a bit of common sense and monitoring the process, it isn't dangerous at all.

 

You do have to use your own judgment always even if everyone says yeah it's great go do it jump off of that cliff, and if someone is doing something stupid well....You can notify them about a potential danger but ya know what; you can't fix stupid". people will always do stupid things.

 

I just got to wondering about the family of that guy who got killed heating the tank and whether he had life insurance and whether they paid on the policy or fought it based on the guy did it to himself by knowingly engaging in an act likely to cause death in violation of clear and established safety regulations etc....
I'm all for doing what ya have to do-I havn't had to do this yet-but I'd first like to know about this angle. I say "screw that" if it means your family is screwed if you get killed doing it.

 

Dave,
Thanks, I remember the story. Tried to download it but they want to be payed for the info.

 

Warm ' er up - SAFELY

I did service in Saskatchewan for years - many days were - 40 F, and so was the R-12, 22 and 502 in the van.

You didn't dare open the jug of 12 as it boils at about -21 F or so - it was in a vacuum.

I too have used torches and hot water to heat cylinders, but safely done, well- - - - Did have a jug of 502 in a big SS sink in a Safeway bakery have the rupture disc go - they had the water heater cranked to 160 F, and one of the bakers shut off the cold tap I had tempering the water - sucked a cloud of 502 into the revolving oven and made the neatest spots on several dozen rolls that were baking - the boss paid for the buns

That being said, I was never stupid enough to scorch the paint on the cylinder ( like a pile of them that came back to the Wholesalers for deposit ) and never used cylinders that were of questionable origin. I would bet a ton that the story of the dead tech with the blown up cylinder was using a ' home made ' jug; probably the wrong, or NO relief valve on it - out of date, compliance, something like that.

That being said, each and every one of us drives to work every day in a VERRRY dangerous piece of equipment - used incorrectly, could and will end your days :eek2:- think of it that way.

JMHO

Freonguy

 

*

.That being said, I was never stupid enough to scorch the paint on the cylinder

YOU SEE, FREON GUY GETS IT



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COMMON PRACTICE INDEED.
I have warmed so many refrigerant drums and cylinders in 24 yrs. I can't even remember. While I commend the concerns for safety and making people aware of the potential dangers... it will be tough to teach common sense and awareness.
It doesn't matter if it's a oxy/act torch, MAPP gas, electric blanket, or bucket of water. They are all tools. Tools in the hands of the wrong person can sometimes end in death. You can teach tool safety until you're blue in the face...it takes knowledge, awareness, and common sense to use them effectively in the field.

 

Well stated. And welcome to the forum.

 

on really cold days i would keep 1/2 jug of freon under the dash on the drivers side so the van heater would keep it nice and warm for a quick charge up. never had to be on a -10 degree rooftop. but if i had to i would us a torch and just be aware.

 

*

on really cold days i would keep 1/2 jug of freon under the dash on the drivers side so the van heater would keep it nice and warm for a quick charge up.

this type of uncontrolled heating is where the problem/danger begins!


Tyndall Airforce Base
Panama city Florida

i see your in Panama city Airbase, today, i am working at Homestead Air Force Base at SOC South



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hot water also great, ive ran hoses fromm heatin system in extreme cold on rooftops , seems one would really be crazy to blow a cylinder with heat , we work on dangerous elements all the time in this trade , care and observation are key , after all pressure relief valves on cylinders should blow under heat /pressure conditions ,one scenario that comes to mind is eg. a light commercial tech w 5 year old drum or refrigerant thats been beat to hell dented and nicked beyond recognition , this "may blow under abnormal heat conditios due to damaged shell , but what experienced tech would heat a drum in that state? i guess it notes saying an apprentice might not know better regards stan

 

I must say I do like to revover on those cold days the refrigerant goes right into the tank, its even better if your inside with that recovery tank thats been in -15 for hrs

 

Iv had to wrap multiple heating blankets and tourch a LP tank outside of a farm house to get the pressure up to light off the boiler to keep from freezing the house. The tank was at 20% but the pressure was so low due to the negative single digits.

As many others have said already. Common sense. There are Hacks out there and there are also IDIOTS. Its called the Natural Selection process.

 

Idiot is a stupid or foolish person. Stupid is one to make poor decisions.

Making a dangerous job more dangerous by knowingly dis-regarding warning labels & safety instructions certainly could be described as idiotic and stupid. Doing it for no other reason except it will make your boss happy, who by the way will swear in court he always stressed never to take a torch to a refrigerant tank, and by doing this you may very well leave a family who will not collect on your life insurance policy because you knowingly caused your own death could very well be described as one who makes poor decisions.

I say everyone who allows an employer to force themselves into doing anything on the job like this is wrong for doing so. If everyone refused to needlessly jeopardize their life so the company could make a buck it would be "common practice" and maybe that guy in St. Louis wouldn't be dead because "he had to do what you have to do".

 

When i was an apprentice i was working with the owners douche bag son. He set a jug of r22 in a sink at proctor and gamble and walked away for a few minutes. Turned out it was steam, blew that thing all over the place, thank goodness it was almost 25 years ago before the thought police and safety people were everywhere.
Idiot still tried to blame it on me,
Ive heated them with torches before too, not in a long time though.

 

How does heating a Refer tank have anything to do with the psycotic actions of a disgruntle employee in St Louis?

 

That is funny! Not the guy today man. Read earlier in this thread about a guy in St. Louis that got killed on a roof heating his refrigerant tank with a torch. They say it nearly decapitated him.

I still would like to know what a life insurance company would do on a life insurance policy in this situation. I mean if he had a family that depended on him and they didn't pay on the policy I don't see what other reason a person needs to say we don't need to be doing what he did.

 

Sorry about that. It has been a long day with what has happened today in St Louis as we all feel for friends and coworkers in that factory.

 

Chlldwtr:

Welcome as well - eloquently put and oh so true.

Hey, does it ever get below 80 F in Fresno?

Freonguy

Thanks, I'm glad to have found this sight. Always enjoy sharing knowledge and ideas with other mechanics.
To answer your question...yes it does get below 80 degrees here in Fresno. Im here in central california in the San Joaquin Valley so we get a pretty good temp swing from summer to winter. Our coldest winter days are 28-30 degrees with the hottest summer days 105-107 degrees.

 

ACC,
That was a good one about the grill!!! LOL!LOL!