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R12rules

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
How do you begin a carreer in controls work?

I have half my life in this industry, but not alot with controls themselves.

I have lots of computer background. LAN, wireless 802.1 stuff. Ran lots of CAT-5, CAT-3. Even some glass.

But where does one apply this knowledge and get an entry level start?


Thank you for any and all sugestions.
 
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Hmmmm... You have the practical experience, now spread your wings and take on more of the tasks that were left to the "control guy" before. That's what I am and have been doing and soon I will be doing only controls. I've been kind of forced in this direction because our controls sub sucks and I'm an impatient bastard, basically I told my boss that if they wouldn't jump for us I'd do the work and it's worked out. Augment your OJT with classes and you'll be on your way.

Any job leads yet?
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
control_noob said:
Any job leads yet?
No. And it is drivng me nuts.

I am project oriented. I need something that I can dwell on otherwise I go crazy!
And right now .. I go thru periods of okay and other times it's insane.


I've shaved my beard, updated and revanped my resume, polished my interview skills, etc., etc. ....


 
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Good thread so far, hopefully some more people will chime in with some more advise.

I'm not looking to go only into contols, but eventually I'd like to know more than the average Joe in this area. I've talked with a control guy from my area (one of the better companies), and asked a similar question. Basically I was left feeling like most of the knowledge I have already learned isn't going to benifit me. If I'm serious about it to ditch service/installs and become an electrician.

Now I do understand that you have to know electricity very well to do this kind of work, but surely there has to be a good way to step over from hvac to controls with out starting over isn't there?

P.S. Not intending to hijack your thread or steer it into another direction... too much anyway :)
 
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R-12 , you might want to contact the local division of Johnson Controls. they have been know to hire Much less experienced people.

I also know they have a training prog, for there employees, we have just dedicated / allocated lab and class room space for them to start their prog here in the upstate of SC.

Worth a shot !!!!!!!
 
amickracing said:
Basically I was left feeling like most of the knowledge I have already learned isn't going to benifit me. If I'm serious about it to ditch service/installs and become an electrician.

Now I do understand that you have to know electricity very well to do this kind of work, but surely there has to be a good way to step over from hvac to controls with out starting over isn't there?

The experience you have in HVAC will be priceless if you move over to controls. An electrician is not a control guy, like a control guy is not an electrician. You must have a good understanding of electricity as it relates to HVAC, as an HVAC tech you are way closer to being a control guy than an electrician. And here is a bold statement: the control guy that understands what the HVAC system is supposed to do will eat the lunch of a straight control guy.

As time allows, investigate *how* the EMS acts on the system, ask questions if the control guy is receptive (most aren't), take time to read about the controls you have seen on site, snoop through control schematics found on site... I basically started learning controls the day I got tired of asking someone else "can you make the A/C come on now?" :)
 
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There are different areas in controls just like any other trade. Your HVAC experience is not going to help if you are getting a job with a company that does mainly lighting and access control, likewise having electrical wiring experience isnt going to help you much when you are planning and troubleshooting a sequence of operation for an AHU.

It seems at least in my rural area that most of the "controls" contractors are electricians who are mounting and wiring the controllers and sensors and then they have a factory / branch guy there for 1 or 2 days doing the programming.

There is also the service end to consider. Also you have to decide what kind of a company you want to work for. (Big corp. or do you want a mom & pop type company?)
 
I myself have recently left the hvac service for a full time controls position. I was lucky because our company started a controls division about two years ago and I ended up transfering over. I have been doing this full time for a year.

Most control companies will jump at the chance to hire a seasoned hvac tech because it is alot easier to teach a person that has hvac background the controls side.

I was offered a job with Trane and Johnson with no programming background.

Installing and wiring controls are the easy part. Engineering and programming is what I still struggle with.

So as stated in previous post check with your local Johnson or Trane branch and see if they are hiring.

Good Luck!
 
I got started in an entry level position doing maintance with several other seasoned techs at one site and just started helping the other techs with control work until I could do some of the work by myself and just went from there.
 
Forums like this one are how I started educating myself about automation controls 7 yrs ago. Started programming PlC and programmable relays in free time. Now, when our company quotes anything involving controls, the boss comes to me for solutions. If you need pics, reference materials, contact information let me know.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
coldmilk said:
Forums like this one are how I started educating myself about automation controls 7 yrs ago. Started programming PlC and programmable relays in free time. Now, when our company quotes anything involving controls, the boss comes to me for solutions. If you need pics, reference materials, contact information let me know.
Reed,

Please to click on the little red dog house at bottom of my post.

Thanks.
 
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R12rules said:
How do you begin a carreer in controls work?
Hmmm. I used to be boat mechanic, Navy type, PBR's. When the Navy later assigned me to big ships, engine rooms and boilers. I'd get curious when we needed to call an Auxilliaries guy to fix a centrifugal AC unit or refrigeration syste,

I'd get curious, and be a bit irked that something that confounded me, seemed so easy to him. So I'd always be looking over his shoulder, asking questions, asking if I could borrow a tech manual to read, and would help him with the heavy, dirty, sweaty part of his work.

After a while ... I didn't need to call him much, if at all.

Then there were those Hagen Automated Boiler Controls, which I knew nothing much about. In fact, when they acted up, we'd have to get our onboard "expert" to come fix things. Same thing. I'd hang around watching, asking questions, lend him a hand with the dumb, boring parts of the job he'd as soon not do anyway.

<G> Then one day I ended up being the "expert" guy people called.

Anytime I worked with something I didn't know or understand well, I did pretty much the same. Spent a LOT of my own time helping out someone else, from whom I hoped to learn. And begged, borrowed, and maybe even light-fingered more than just a few tech manuals and other literature. Much of which I still have.

Later got my degree, via night classes, correspondence classes, and challenge tests.

Not a degree in controls, BTW. But I was always interested particularly in controls. I don't believe in "Black Boxes", and just following the instructions to install em. I always started investigating and finding out what that durned Black Box did and how it did it. Or how that intelligent, self modulating and adjusting valve did what it did. And ... WHY.

When I retired from the Navy and worked for a phone company as an in-house "facilities" manager, I was responsible for a few hundred buildings. Most of which were pretty small "switch houses". But some were fairly large network centers, customer service centers, etc. And we had a conglomeration of equipment. Honeywell, Johnson Controls, Andover, you name it. We had it somewhere.

Fact was, many a time we'd be having problems and whichever local vendor or contractor we used for whatever control system wouldn't come. Or wouldn't come NOW. When we wanted him to, and as required by our contracts, which said vendor signed.

Plus, more than a few time, the contractor was BSing us to the max ... and beyond. System wouldn't perform as advertised and guaranteed. Guy would give me a BS excuse. Or some other song and dance.

<Shrug> So I started to learn Honeywell, Johnson Control, Andover, etc. Even paid out of my own pocket to attend an Andover school.

<G> Pretty soon I didn't need to call those BSing contractors much, any more. Not that I didn't call any. The good ones I kept, bad ones I "fired". Screw em. Fixed, replaced, or installed the stuff in those areas myself.

(I had responsibility for a whole state worth of buildings, so used a number of contractors.)

Anyway, when I called it quits with the phone company, and went looking for a job, I found the company for whom I work now. At the time they were looking for a controls guy with a background in a particular line of controls. About which I knew nothing. But then, neither did much of anyone else ... who was looking for a job.

I told the fellow I interviewed with that I didn't know squat about those controls, but did know others. Andover, Honeywell, etc.

He asked if I thought I could learn a new one and asked if I wanted to give it a shot. No schools ... no time, they needed me NOW. Could I teach self if they gave me a set of manuals?

<G> I went home with a stack of manuals, and hopped in with both feet. 3 days later I took over a project. Granted that I had help. Phone number of another guy with the company I could call if I had questions.

Point is, the interviewer later told me he selected me because others he interviewed backed off when faced with something totally new to them. I didn't.

I figured I knew the basics. Sure as hell know HVAC systems, and other other manufactureres of controls did things ... and WHY. So how hard could a new system be?

If you know what needs to be done and why, then learning a new way to do it really isn't that hard.

I don't know about your area, but around here, while it's not frequent ... it is REGULAR that this or that company is looking for someone not afraid to give controls a try.

Also around here, just about as common to find a controls guy with a mechanical background as with an electrician background. In the company for whom I work, it's nearly 50/50. With most of the electrical types having had a lot of prior experience in HVAC systems.

 
I was a commercial HVAC tech for about 8 years, and was always interested in controls. I applied to every major controls company I could think of. I had virtually no controls experience, and limited computer skills. My knowledge of HVAC is what got me the job. I have worked for JCI for almost 2 years, and am now managing/programming entire projects. You'd be surprised at just how fast you can get good at this stuff if you truly understand what the controls are supposed to do already.

I was willing to move, and took a pay cut (at first) compared to what I made as a tech. I don't think I could have made a better decision though. I don't have any on-call, I don't have to sweat on hot, or cold roof tops, breaking my back on a compressor, or coil, or fan, or motor replacement. I miss it sometimes, but the technical challenges are about equal.

Apply everywhere. With your experience you should be highly sought after.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
These last two posts have me thinking ... I like what you have described.
So far, I have applied to Siemens and JCI via HVAC-AGENT.
No word thus far. Probably wont hear a thing til after the first.

I would like to see what the programing looks like.


Thanks to all who took the time to share their wisdom/ advice.


 
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floating point said:
There are different areas in controls just like any other trade. Your HVAC experience is not going to help if you are getting a job with a company that does mainly lighting and access control, likewise having electrical wiring experience isnt going to help you much when you are planning and troubleshooting a sequence of operation for an AHU.

It seems at least in my rural area that most of the "controls" contractors are electricians who are mounting and wiring the controllers and sensors and then they have a factory / branch guy there for 1 or 2 days doing the programming.

There is also the service end to consider. Also you have to decide what kind of a company you want to work for. (Big corp. or do you want a mom & pop type company?)
I'm not intending any offense with this comment...I would assume, this being "HVAC-Talk" forum on controls, that we are specifically talking about HVAC controls. In this part of the country, the HVAC contractor is usually responsible for every aspect of the systems they are installing, equipment, controls, accesories, etc. The electricians around here won't touch anything low voltage, that is the mechanicals responsibility.

However, I am seeing more and more on big commercial jobs the electrical contractor being subbed by the mechanical contractor to run conduit and pull wiring. The mechanical then either subs the termination to a "controls" company or does it in house.

Let me think about what I've just stated and retract if necessary.

Nonetheless, this is an HVAC site and thus it can be assumed the topic of discussion will more than likely be HVAC related...but not always :)!
 
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R12,
I willmore than likely be going to work for Novar Controls in 2005, already verbally committed. Just waiting on the "official" word. From the interveiw process I was told that it was my HVAC experience that received their attention, regarding economizer operation mostly. Keep grinding it out and it will happen if that is what you want. Good Luck. If I can help, let me know.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
I live near Austin Texas.


Thanks for the kind offers for help. I could sure use some advice.

 
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Well, Controls, Now were talking.

I spent 6 years with Hussmann, became one of there lead Controls installers. It started as one of those questions, "hey would you be able to...". The answer was definately yes.

After that I went to work for Cal-Air, was hired on as their Controls Manager for the Santa Rosa Branch. I didn't know anything about Johnson Controls, but when I was done I had figured it out. That didn't last long, I had to move from the area...long story. Which took me back to Hussmann for a short period of time. I asked for a raise because I was doing out of town controls installs, off site programming for the controls and then they still expected me to take weekend duty...after being out of town all week.

I really didn't expect the raise, but the best part was when my boss Jim Trenz said "Anybody can do controls", that was funny. I was gone one month later.

I then went to work for Emerson Retail Services...Controls Devision. Emerson owns CPC, they also own Copeland, I hated CPC when I started there, but I knew I wanted to be doing something in the controls industry. Couldn't stand the thought of pushing "Red 'C', Blue 'P', Red 'C'" all the time. I hate Reflects controllers. Anyway, I quickly came to know the Einstein...what fun. All I have to say about that is E2 Rocks.

I had to leave Emerson due to my sons health condition, and couldn't be flying all over the country with the chance of my son not being there when I got home. So, I started my own business. My goal was to start in the HVAC trade to provide some income to eventually start a controls division. Well, the HVAC side has not taken off quite yet, but with my contacts from the other companies, the controls division has taken off...gang busters.

We now are installing Market and Commercial building controls, Com-Trol, CPC, Danfoss, Johnson Controls, you name it.

I guess where this is going is, if you are not with a company that does controls, move to one that does. I don't know your personal situation, but don't settle for something you are not happy with...never settle.

To bad you live in GA, I'd hire ya!



 
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