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Flame Sensor Fluctuations

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#22 ·
timebuilder said:
Sorry.

Most issues are bonding issues. Once the furnace board is willing to start the firing cycle, a ground problem is meaningless.

The ECG has nothing to do with flame rectification.
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Timebuilder, I respect the depths of your knowledge, as I have seen you put forth some really great responses towards others asking for help. If you would help me to understand flame rectification and bonding better, I would appreciate it.peehaps there is a subsection in these forums you could direct me? I also read a post concerning your brother, and i offer my condolences. Hope you are having a pleasant evening, and look forward to your response.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
 
#23 ·
First, Steve is Bret's brother. I posted his email in the memoriam section because he said what I would have said. Bret's fight was not only personally heroic, but an example of a willingness to try things now that could help others later.

Also, I would be happy to help. Since you are a Pro member, make a post in the Pro section and I will get to it. I have a trac pipe class tonight, but if I have time after work and before the class, I will try to get started then.

There are lots of fairly good articles around on flame rectification. I have one that I can post in the Pro section. I have been too busy to write my own article....but I might as well for the book.
 
#24 ·
lzenglish said:
Dear Ace: It appears you have angered our award winning, UA, Hvac Electrical Specialist!!!!!!!! LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Wow..that is a coooool Bela Lugosi picture!!!!

I'm not mad. I just like to keep the tech stuff mostly in the Pro section.
 
#25 ·
Zeng:
He is avoiding my questions. Because if he awnsers them he again will make himself look foolish. At the same time mad respect for the guy. He had a lot of accomplishments. I just don't agree that improper equipment grounding does not effect flame rectification. In most cases it is against the manufactures recommendations. You just can't do that! They must be followed.
 
#26 ·
I'm not avoiding anything.

I simply do not share a lot of technical information with unvetted people in the open forums.

Now you can say anything that you like.....I don't care that you're wrong.
 
#27 ·
Timebuilder:
Am I wrong that you don't share technical advice in open forums?
You seemed more than willing to share technical advice in the Gordon Piatt open forum. I did apologize to you in that forum.
You are right... Technically improper equipment grounding would not effect flame rectification... This is what RSES teaches you. However it certainly would have a secondary effect by creating improper control voltage.
I realize not everyone has your electrical background. And the title of Hvac electrical specialist you received by passing a RSES test. I would also like to think I have a decent electrical background. However my training doesn't come from RSES. It comes from my mentor who was a controls contractor and the best boiler tech I have ever met. So I am thankful he for that!
 
#28 ·
Anyway timebuilder I have to go help a boiler tech with a powerflame burner. Any good advice? Probably not... If I run into trouble I will just call my mentor. I still do that timebuiler. Lucky to have him right!
 
#29 ·
You're fortunate to have anyone who is willing to help you.... I do agree with that.
 
#30 ·
Now of course....I'm going to be monitoring the pro's section to see when you get approved for pro membership, and you can ask your questions and then I'll be more than happy to tell you where your ideas are incorrect and what you need to do to understand the concepts that will lead you to more success in this area of our trade.

That way you won't be one of those unfortunate guys who thinks that driving a ground rod right next to a boiler means that he's fixed it.
 
#31 ·
Stalker friend of yours?

Creepy.

The flame rectification circuit could care less about the equipment ground back to panel.
 
#32 ·
I think there a lot of guys in the trade who view themselves and their experience as being unimpeachable, because people that they've worked with and respected have told them certain things over the years, and they find it very very difficult to believe that the people that they liked and respected could possibly have been incorrect about something. Sometimes, they don't want to admit to themselves that there are areas of their knowledge that are basically incomplete. This is a very human emotion and reaction, but it's one that holds people back from being the best that they can be.

It was just as true on the farm I grew up on as it was centuries ago when they came up with the expression that "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

All I can do is to offer what I know to help people... if they want to accept it and learn from it, that's great....but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it when they don't.
 
#33 ·
Timebuilder:
I'm done with the boiler service call. Guess what? I was wrong. It wasn't a powerflame it was a Gordon Piatt model R. Wow that's ironic! Guess what I checked the equipment ground from the panel! Guess where lands? It it bonded to the back plate of the cabinet! Guess we're the 120vac neutral wire lands. It is bonded to the back plate of the cabinet! Guess where the Honeywell programmer ground wire lands? It it bonded to the back plate of the cabinet! Guess what? I had the service Manuel in the truck! Guess what it says on page 30? That you are a fool!
I would rather be the idiot who takes bad advise from a mentor that has made me a owner in a multimillion dollar company.
Than the idiot who flat out is saying that Gordon Piatt engineers are wrong about flame rectification and timebuilder is right.
Timebuilder call Gordon Piatt's engineers right away and tell them they are wrong about flame rectification! The are misleading boiler techs and giving bad advise! I myself would never tell a engineer they are wrong. I tried that before. It doesn't work! Engineers are always right! Timebuilder do you understand?
 
#36 ·
I am relaxed. I'm not going to stay quite when he is using a passive aggressive approach to insult my mentor and I. Furthermore anyone who insist that manufacturers engineers are wrong and he is right. Is a fool!
 
#37 ·
Went on a no heat call once. The 80% furnace stopped working. The lady said it was working fine for years till she unplugged it and plugged it back in. For years the thing functioned with a two prong ungrounded cord and receptacle. The only reason it stopped working was because she reversed polarity when she plugged it back in.


Red Man said:
I have seen new residential furnaces run fine without a ground. Not saying it's good, or safe, but it works.
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#40 ·
One thing I learned in this Trade is you need to know a lot of different aspects of other Trades,but it's hard to be expert at all of them.Sometimes I tell Customers you need a Licensed Electrician,Master Plumber or a Chimney Expert, I've gone as Far as my License Allows.Sometimes I show up for the Boiler,and they ask if I can look at their Fireplace,I say I can,but I won't!Not taking responsibility,by telling them it safe to use when I'm not supposed to,or Licensed to work on it.My point is...well, I forget what my Point is!��
 
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