id call them, show them, insist they repair if in fact they are responsible

 

This is a prime example of why I am not a supporter of duct cleaning. The ducts end up in worse shape than prior due to an untrained/impatient duct cleaning tech. The inner flex liners are about as think as a trash bag and can easily be torn by the brushes if used incorrectly. It sounds as if your flexible ducts are now damaged. I would call the company who performed the cleaning and get someone back out to inspect.

In most states, you don't even have to be licensed in HVAC to perform duct cleanings. That is ridiculous. That's like letting a truck driver perform a colonoscopy!

 

They should NOT be using brushes in flex ducting, they should be doing an air sweep with the system under negative pressure.

 

They used an air compressor, with some sort of whip-like attachment on it. Basically as the air left the hose, it whipped around like a firehose out of control. I think it was made of soft foam or something.

However the air compressor hose itself was very heavy and very stiff. The air return ducts in the ceiling are elbowed at 90 degrees before they attach to the flex duct. I think what happened was when he tried to feed the hose up there, the hose itself grabbed onto the inner lining and ripped it. I took a video with my phone, if I can just figure out how to post it. I'll probably just link it here in a few.

 

Well I got videos on my phone, but I can't get them to upload to YouTube.

Anyway, COIT sent some people back today. They came in, went straight to the attic. I asked them if they wanted to see the damage, and one of the guys said sure, so I showed him the two returns that were making noise. I was going to show him the video on my phone but he didn't seem interested--just took my word for it, apparently. The guy in the attic looked at what size flex ducts were used, and said he would order the necessary sections and replace them. The entire visit was probably 3 minutes. I'm sure that was on purpose.

Now I'm thinking that instead of letting COIT replace just those two ducts, I should have ALL of my flex ducts professionally inspected and replaced by an HVAC company that knows what the hell they are doing, and then send the bill to COIT. But of course this will cause a confrontation with COIT, as I'm sure they'd rather save a ton of money and just replace the two return ducts themselves.

 

They don't sound like a very professional outfit. Try to get what services they will perform on paper, let them do their job, and if they don't do it right to where you have to go to someone else to do it, keep that original contract so you can get COIT to pay the other company for doing something they couldn't.

 

Yeah, COIT called today to say they were on their way with the replacement ducts. I told them to hold off. Called the general manager, and told him I wanted to have an HVAC company inspect and replace the ducts. We discussed it a while, and I agreed to give COIT an opportunity to do the inspection/replacement. However I will be there for the inspection to see what they see, because that is an obvious conflict of interest, inspecting your own work for damage. Also I told them I would have an HVAC friend of mine look at their work after they are done, and if it's not done right, I will not be satisfied. But the general manager said the guy they sent out yesterday was a certified HVAC guy.

What do you think, should I let COIT try to fix it? The manager said if we went with an HVAC company they would have to submit a bid to COIT for the work.

 

Also, how difficult is it to replace just the flex duct part of an existing installation? For my own peace of mind, I would actually feel better if I did the installation myself instead of letting them do it. Is this feasible? I'm pretty handy... Built my own shed from the foundation up.

 

Flex duct must be installed so that it is stretched out, sealed with mastic or approved tape. This tape is not the regular tape you see in the hardware store. Flex duct must not sag. There are specs that must be followed. I am not a proponent of duct cleaning flex ducts.

 

Now you want all ducts replaced? That's a little much. Sounds to me as if the company is being fair and is trying to rectify the issue at hand. Let them at least attempt to repair, if you still have issues - then call another company.

Duct work should be installed by a trained professional only. Improper installation could result in air flow problems that could lead to other component failures. Not a DIY job.

 

I never said I wanted all the ducts replaced; I want them all inspected to see which ones were damaged, rather than just assuming that only the two I heard are the only ones that were damaged, which is the way things were going before I talked to the manager today. I am giving them the opportunity to fix it, but I will inspect their work as it's being done and afterward.

Interestingly, the manager I spoke to was not surprised this happened. He said it is a rare but regular occurrence, affecting about 1% of all cleanings they do. I'm not sure how much I believe that statistic, and a lot of it probably has to do with owners not being as diligent or observant. If I hadn't heard that faint rustling sound in the return I would have never suspected anything was wrong. He said the only sure way to avoid damaging flex duct liners would be for COIT to refuse to clean flex ducts, which would be "throwing the baby out with the bath water," as he said. In other words COIT considers the possibility of damaging and having to replace your ducts an acceptable risk.

Or more accurately, COIT considers the possibility of an owner noticing that a duct has been damaged and complaining about it as an acceptable risk.

So if you have flex ducts and have had them cleaned, check them out. I found I could stick my cellphone video camera up into a vent and look down a good portion of the flex duct, which clearly showed me the damage.

I do know that after this experience I will never have the flex ducts cleaned again. If I feel that they get dirty enough to warrant it, I will simply have them replaced. May cost more but if they're going to be damaged during cleaning anyway, then may as well go that route to begin with.

 

Against my better judgment, I can't resist the urge to reply to this.

First; I do not know anything about the company you hired, good or bad.

You hired them to perform a service & they did what you asked.

It is a given that cleaning flexible ducts is a slippery slope. But, when one considers the reward vs the risk, the risk is acceptable in any case.

In your case, some damage was done to a duct or two.

When you called them; they took your call & sent someone out right away & agreed to rectify the problem(s). This does not seem like the actions of someone trying to give you the run-around.

With all due respect, Sir, I believe you're being a bit unreasonable. Let them do what they said they will do to fix it & then, if they are unable to fix it or become unwilling to see it through, then you have reason to act the way you are acting now. But, not until then.

JMO

 

That's what happens when a carpet cleaning company does duct cleaning. We have been doing duct cleaning for nineteen years and have never damaged ducting.

 

this is one of the reasons why I never recommend duct cleaning. esp flex.

whoever replaces the flex, make sure that the connections are sealed with
either paint on mastic or mastic tape. from hvac supply now lowes.
for mastic tape, I only use hardcast brand 1402 tape.

ducts should be straight tight runs with gentle curves. no more than
1" sag in 4' section. 3" duct straps cause less restriction than smaller widths.

best of luck.

 

I agree .i do not do duct cleaning.but you realy cant clean flex properly without damaging the liner.
You would be better off replacing the ducts.

 

Not true, we do it many times a week ( if not a day) and have for years.

 

We air sweep the ducting with it under negitive pressure.
http://www.abatement.com/air-duct/air-duct-landing.htm

 

The company I work for doesn't recommend duct cleaning. When I am asked by customers, I normally give them a few reasons why:
1) Do you have a filter in your system? You should... That should catch a good portion of the dust, dirt, hair, etc that may get into your system. However, filters aren't perfect. Their primary purpose is to keep the equipment reasonably clean, yet with today's marketing a big emphasis has been placed on improving air quality. If they were perfect, then you wouldn't be able to get any airflow from your system! If air quality is your concern, we offer an electronic air cleaner that could do the job.
2) Do you see particles coming from your registers? That may actually be attic insulation coming from leaks in the ductwork. Ductwork installed today (at least in my area) is put through a much tougher standard than it was when your home was built. Back then cloth backed tape was sufficient for joints, however 30 year old duct tape that has been through the extremes of your furnace and air conditioner has probably deteriorated considerably. Today (again in my area), we use a mastic as well as a metal backed tape that creates a much better seal. Regulations require 6% or less duct loss for new duct systems, we frequently see it down to 3%, whereas there was quite possibly no requirement when your system was installed.
3) EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU! Then I tell them about wireflex, and how easy it is to tear apart the inner duct.

I don't mean to bash on duct cleaning, and in extreme cases do we recommend it. However, our company ourselves does not do it. Anybody out there who does do duct cleaning, what are some of your reasons for it?

 

. Anybody out there who does do duct cleaning, what are some of your reasons for it?

Here ya go.

 

...is that a bird? Like I said, for extreme cases we do recommend it. I did have a call once from a landlord who said that the tenants just moved out and the ducts were smelly. I get there, the whole house wreaks, find that the previous tenants took off the ceiling SA registers and threw fish in the ducts, turned the tstat up, and moved out. The landlord was fairly rude to me, so I can only imagine how he was to the tenants, but there was no cleaning those. That house got brand new ductwork a few days later.

 

The whip duct cleaning works well for metal trunk line duct runs, with a strong vacuum attached to the trunk line. I would never try to attempt flex duct cleaning. It damages the lining and insulation in the duct every time. Brushes are just a bad idea with flex.

 

We used to clean flex duct all the time with bristle brushes, specifically air care brushmaster. We have had 5 cases of torn ductwork in 3 years. However, I will admit that it's impossible to inspect every square inch of ductwork for tears after it has been brushed. An air whip is safer for the flex duct, but doesn't get the duct nearly as clean as a roto brush.

 

I give the company points for responding. Some of the wording in the contrat you signed typically will say something about them not be able to be responsible for any damage to the inner liner that might take place.

Typically, most companies will respond and replace short sections but it sounds like these guys are willing to go the extra mile.

And, no, I also don't recommend duct cleaning. What I recommend if the homeownere wants to know the conditions of his duct work, is having an HVAC company take apart accessable ducts joints and inspect the ducts by actually looking. A remote camera is also a valuable tool in this effort too.

What flex ducts might have stuff in them is typically easier to replace then to clean in any fashion suing brushes or vacuums which will and can damage that inner liner as you know.

 

I agree with others that I would give the company a question a fair chance to review and fix the problem. I would, however, be concerned that if you are able to see rips and tears in the accessable parts of the flex duct, that it is like that throughout. I'm no expert and dont know what the cost of cleaning is, but I'd wonder if it is not just easier and more effective to replace flex duct for which there is a substantail concern of excessive dirt and debris than try to have it cleaned. I replaced several runs of flex duct at my house for less than $200, and did not find it difficult. But I researched how to do it properly instead of just slapping it on like most homeowners probably would.

 

I take things apart. as the parts come apart I inspect the insides.
if the flex is moldy, or dirty..it gets replaced.

if the ductwork is hard pipe I'm inspecting it prior to sealing.
around here lots of hard pipe is held together with just duct tape, which you don't discover
until you unwrap it. (usually duct wrap is shot..one of the reasons for sealing is to re-insulate)
with just duct tape holding it together, it constantly comes apart, so as I screw sections back together
I look inside. I've had to take sections out and hose them out, let them dry & then put them back
together.

hvac company takes static pressure readings before & after to show any changes.
it was actually this forum that made me aware that I needed to be careful with sealing ducts
& the effect it could have on static pressure.

for a while the guy I usually work these jobs with would take sp readings, but a couple of
hvac companies didn't like that...so now the hvac co takes readings both before & after.
fine with me...having extra eyes on my jobs is a good thing IMO.

what still amazes me is the amount of dirt, spiderwebs, sheetrock dust & crap in
return air chases. homeowners are amazed...but never thought before to vac out
return. once the chase is air sealed & lined with ductboard which is then mastic
sealed..returns don't get dirty again. I've seen return used to store all kinds
of stuff..paint cans, cleaning products & a few things stashed away from
parents by their kids.

I've done a few duct change outs of flex duct after duct cleaning. not sure what
they used..whips brushes lions tigers or bears...but the flex liners were shot.