Im using this JCI valve VG1841FR+909GGA does anyone know if its a diverting or mixing valve? I have the cutsheet on it from this site http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.com/default.aspx but I cant seem to find anything saying if its a diverting or mixing valve. Any ideas?
Igotworms
On page 3 of the cutsheet this tells me it is a mixing valve. Two inlets A & B.
"Flow Characteristics Three-Way Equal Percentage Flow Characteristics of In-line Port A (Coil) and
Linear Flow Characteristics of Angle Port B (Bypass)"
"Flow Characteristics Three-Way Equal Percentage Flow Characteristics of In-line Port A (Coil) and
Linear Flow Characteristics of Angle Port B (Bypass)"
Well ...
I'm not a JCI valve expert by any means. But I've seen and worked with them, including the VG1000 series ball valves. If we buy valves, we use Belimo's. But sometimes we're working with existing valves, or for a new installation someone else was tasked to buy the valves and they bought JCI.
In any event the VG1000 3way valves look, to me, exactly like the standard Belimo valves with flanges of the same size. The only difference I've seen are the attached actuators. When doing my testing and commissioning thing, I've even pulled off the actuator and looked at the top of the ball valve stem and the JCI ball valves had the very same marking method to show you the port orientation of the ball.
I would imagine JCI, just as Belimo does, buys at least some of its valves from other manufacturers. Then slaps their name and actuators on them.
Was just working at a job site which is half and half. Half the installed controls, including control valves, were installed by a JCI outfit; the other half of the building equipment we control and installed the control equipment on. Evidently customer wasn't very happy with the JCI controls outfit they used for the first part of their project to convert their building from pneumatics to DDC. They had that outfit do Phase 1 a couple years back, which was half the building. This time around, to finish the conversion, they hired us. We rep a few other control systems, but not JCI. But as we explained to customer, no problem. They didn't have to change out the JCI equipment installed. The DDC equipment itself works fine, especially once we tweaked settings, configurations, etc. That wasn't why they didn't want to use that other contractor again. And since we were going to put in a Jace front end, no problem we could pull in the existing JCI points along with the points from the other line of controllers we were going to use. We've done this sort of thing before.
Anyway, for instance I walked into a mechanical room with 4 nearly identical AHU's. Two of them done by the JCI outfit, two done by us. The JCI valves and Belimo control valves installed are distinguishable one from another only by the actuator used.
Further, when looking at the valve installation guide Desert Guy posted a link to I note JCI points out that the characterizing disk used in the valve is on the A port, just as is the case with Belimo equivalent valve. And looking at the pictures showing how ports are arranged in the ball, that's identical to the Belimo equivalent. Heck, having worked with a bunch of similar valves, the shapes, flats, etc of the valve body all look identical. Which matches what I've observed with my own eyes looking at real valves installed in the same machinery room, half of which were JCI, half of which were Belimo.
I suspect both companies bought the valves themselves from the same valve manufacturer.
So maybe some info from the Belimo manual would be helpful to you?
![]()
As you can see, such ball valves can be used as either mixing or diverting. However, you should make sure you avoid piping them like the two examples shown with X's drawn thru them. If installed either of the ways they tell you to avoid .... you WILL regret it, I promise.
Chuckle, a couple years ago another mech outfit got the contract for the mechanical portion of a retro-fit contract where we converted a dozen school buildings from pneumatic to DDC controls. We bought the valves, they installed them. WE gave them exact guidance on how to install the 3 way valves, the engineering firm that designed the conversion gave them proper guidance ... right there on the plans they made, and STILL the mech outfit put in the 3 ways every which way. I later quizzed one of their foremen about this, he said it shouldn't matter, so he told the guys to use whatever worked for the easiest install.
LOL ... he was wrong, very wrong. I even went over his head and directly told one of the company's management guys that they were putting some in wrong and those would NOT work properly. He dismissed my warnings. Net result ... they had to go back later and re-pipe almost 200 valves spread out over a dozen different buildings.
Chuckle, they even came up with the idea that simply taking off the actuator and re-orienting the ball would work. WRONG. If that sucker is piped wrong, you're screwed. No matter what way you position the ball you'll get (1) no flow, (2) inadequate flow, or (3) leak by adequate to ensure operation problems. On the outside, one position looks like it'd work. But look at a not installed valve closely, peering into each port for every possible position ... and you'll see the problem.
I'm not a JCI valve expert by any means. But I've seen and worked with them, including the VG1000 series ball valves. If we buy valves, we use Belimo's. But sometimes we're working with existing valves, or for a new installation someone else was tasked to buy the valves and they bought JCI.
In any event the VG1000 3way valves look, to me, exactly like the standard Belimo valves with flanges of the same size. The only difference I've seen are the attached actuators. When doing my testing and commissioning thing, I've even pulled off the actuator and looked at the top of the ball valve stem and the JCI ball valves had the very same marking method to show you the port orientation of the ball.
I would imagine JCI, just as Belimo does, buys at least some of its valves from other manufacturers. Then slaps their name and actuators on them.
Was just working at a job site which is half and half. Half the installed controls, including control valves, were installed by a JCI outfit; the other half of the building equipment we control and installed the control equipment on. Evidently customer wasn't very happy with the JCI controls outfit they used for the first part of their project to convert their building from pneumatics to DDC. They had that outfit do Phase 1 a couple years back, which was half the building. This time around, to finish the conversion, they hired us. We rep a few other control systems, but not JCI. But as we explained to customer, no problem. They didn't have to change out the JCI equipment installed. The DDC equipment itself works fine, especially once we tweaked settings, configurations, etc. That wasn't why they didn't want to use that other contractor again. And since we were going to put in a Jace front end, no problem we could pull in the existing JCI points along with the points from the other line of controllers we were going to use. We've done this sort of thing before.
Anyway, for instance I walked into a mechanical room with 4 nearly identical AHU's. Two of them done by the JCI outfit, two done by us. The JCI valves and Belimo control valves installed are distinguishable one from another only by the actuator used.
Further, when looking at the valve installation guide Desert Guy posted a link to I note JCI points out that the characterizing disk used in the valve is on the A port, just as is the case with Belimo equivalent valve. And looking at the pictures showing how ports are arranged in the ball, that's identical to the Belimo equivalent. Heck, having worked with a bunch of similar valves, the shapes, flats, etc of the valve body all look identical. Which matches what I've observed with my own eyes looking at real valves installed in the same machinery room, half of which were JCI, half of which were Belimo.
I suspect both companies bought the valves themselves from the same valve manufacturer.
So maybe some info from the Belimo manual would be helpful to you?
As you can see, such ball valves can be used as either mixing or diverting. However, you should make sure you avoid piping them like the two examples shown with X's drawn thru them. If installed either of the ways they tell you to avoid .... you WILL regret it, I promise.
Chuckle, a couple years ago another mech outfit got the contract for the mechanical portion of a retro-fit contract where we converted a dozen school buildings from pneumatic to DDC controls. We bought the valves, they installed them. WE gave them exact guidance on how to install the 3 way valves, the engineering firm that designed the conversion gave them proper guidance ... right there on the plans they made, and STILL the mech outfit put in the 3 ways every which way. I later quizzed one of their foremen about this, he said it shouldn't matter, so he told the guys to use whatever worked for the easiest install.
LOL ... he was wrong, very wrong. I even went over his head and directly told one of the company's management guys that they were putting some in wrong and those would NOT work properly. He dismissed my warnings. Net result ... they had to go back later and re-pipe almost 200 valves spread out over a dozen different buildings.
Chuckle, they even came up with the idea that simply taking off the actuator and re-orienting the ball would work. WRONG. If that sucker is piped wrong, you're screwed. No matter what way you position the ball you'll get (1) no flow, (2) inadequate flow, or (3) leak by adequate to ensure operation problems. On the outside, one position looks like it'd work. But look at a not installed valve closely, peering into each port for every possible position ... and you'll see the problem.
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
