[dan sw fl]

Well, tech has come and gone.

Says the system is functioning correctly, which I agree it will cool the heck outta here.

I guess the next step would be to ask for a manual J to be performed?

Post a photo of the actual Heat Pump NAMEPLATE.

Post additional sets of operating data because of Higher outdoor temperatures in June.
1. Normal
__________ measure amps ONCE / HOUR from NOON to 7 PM

2. Thermostat: set at 75'F overnight ( or ~ 3 am) till noon, then reset to 68'F
__ Measure amps from 11 am to 1 pm + _ every 15 minutes

What is the water flow rate?

ASSISTANCE:
__________ https://www.mysimplifiedhvac.com

 

[Interested1204]

Sure thing. Attached the nameplate, and the pumps. I looked on the Geopulse website, but couldn't find one had the yellow around the pumps. Also, I wasn't able to find a model # on the pump unit itself, so I'm not sure on the flow currently. I know that they are both operating in the eco mode and still doesn't get the rise noted in the geothermal unit manual.

5/19 is the warmest day I have on record except for 5/4 (which I think we already looked at).

I flipped the picture of the pumps upright, the text is upside down on the actual pumps, not sure that matters.

I'll grab the usage data over the next couple of days, then setup the #2 68/75 test later this week. Thursday/Friday/Saturday are slated within a degree of each other and we're almost always here these days.

 

[Interested1204]

Ok, here are the two days of data.

June 4th - Control Day - 30.485 kwh
Thermostat Schedule 7pm (night before) to 5:30am = 69, 5:30am to 7pm = 71, 7pm = 69 then around 10pm 68

June 5th - Test Day - 33.295 kwh
Thermostat Schedule - Starting at midnight 68. 3am = 75, 12pm = 68

It was pretty warm, and the family did complain about it being chilly in the house at 68, but I loved it.

It IS a bit interesting that it ran in stage 2 for nearly an hour from around 11:30 to 12:30 and and dropped 4 degrees in an hour, but didn't keep going down to 68, and ran in stage 1 most of the day instead of running 30 more min then cycling to maintain.

Best I can tell from our shoulder months, we run about 1500 kwh in the months where we the HVAC isn't running very much. If we average 30 kwh a day x 30 days, this unit will represent 900kwh or roughly half the electric bill, of which the old system was considerably less by percentage.

Would you think asking for the contractor to do a manual J is still the best plan?

 

[pecmsg]

At 68* indoor temp and 95 outdoor, the unit is cycling then it’s oversized, PERIOD!

 

[Interested1204]

Well, after a few weeks of patience, I have a heat load Analysis from my contractor. Here is what it says.

I read it to say 3.27 tons of cooling, and 427k BTUs per hour of heat (or 35 tons). Can anyone help me decode this?

If it reads the way I think it does, WOW my windows are horrible. But they are double glaze, LowEClear, Air fill. They have .35- U Factor, .3 Solar Heat Gain Coefficient

 

[BNME8EZ]

It looks to me like the windows are off somehow. Most programs use the same window criteria for both heat and cool. There will be a difference in loss through the windows between heat and cool but it is more based on temperature difference across the window than window type. To me this makes the whole calculation suspect. It also seems odd that ventilation adds no latent load or any load at all. Seems to me this was thrown together to prove you need a 4 ton system rather than an accurate load calc.

 

[Interested1204]

While I agree whole heartedly, (as my load calc came in even less than theirs), what do I do at this point? Hire an independent Energy Auditor? Wouldn't my contractor simply say that I am trying to get something out of them? Were you in my shoes, what would you do?

 

[dan sw fl]

Well, after a few weeks of patience, I have a heat load Analysis from my contractor. Here is what it says.

I read it to say 3.27 tons of cooling, and 427k BTUs per hour of heat (or 35 tons).

Can anyone help me decode this?

If it reads the way I think it does, WOW my windows are horrible. But they are double glaze, LowEClear, Air fill. They have .35- U Factor, .3 Solar Heat Gain Coefficient

View attachment 817020

Model of the glass in the CHVAC software BY SUBJECT CONTRACTOR is obviously erroneous.

You have the data { post # 43} for a Meaningful ENERGY AUDIT by deciphering what the energy usage is in the Summer months.

Your estimate of 900 KW-HRs seems right on.

= 900 /2400 Summer time average
= 38%

It still seems like 3-Ton A/C should have been THE APPROPRIATE Selection.

 

[dan sw fl]

Model of the glass in the CHVAC software BY SUBJECT CONTRACTOR is obviously erroneous.

You have the data { post # 43} for a Meaningful ENERGY AUDIT by deciphering what the energy usage is in the Summer months.

Your estimate of 900 KW-HRs seems right on.

= 900 /2400 Summer time average
= 38%

It still seems like 3-Ton A/C should have been THE APPROPRIATE Selection.

YOUR A/C OPERATING COST IS about 50% of your energy bill
from May through September.

ATTACHMENT

 

[pecmsg]

While I agree whole heartedly, (as my load calc came in even less than theirs), what do I do at this point? Hire an independent Energy Auditor? Wouldn't my contractor simply say that I am trying to get something out of them? Were you in my shoes, what would you do?

You can ask for the proper sized unit to be installed. Doubt hell do it!

 

[Interested1204]

I totally agree, I don't think he's currently going to do anything. I mean at this point I all have this forum and my data, but nothing really I can walk in and go, I know you put in a unit that's too big and here is the proof, please correct it, ya know? He's got an engineer (hired after the fact) that says we needed 3.27 tons of unit, of which they only come in whole tons etc. Is it reasonable to request the engineer explain the data in the ManualJ that he provided (specifically the windows)?

Failing that, I'm going to hire someone to do a detailed load analysis and use that.

I really want to make sure I have my ducks in a row if I'm going to have to try to force the issue.

 

[Interested1204]

Update: He agreed to replace it. I'm sure it will be a few months, as the first one had to be factory ordered and it took 8 weeks. I'm optimistic that we're on the path to getting it fixed, though still kind of expecting a gotcha somewhere.

 

[Interested1204]

Well, I'm happy to report that it has been replaced with the 3 ton version of the same Carrier Geothermal system. It was as 1 for 1 box swap. I know that it was not my responsibility that an error was made, but I know that they had to have lost money replacing the unit, even just the labor of the guys (16 man hours, 3 guys x 4 hours, and then 2 guys x 2 hours for startup) that did the physical install not to mention the cost of the unit itself. Once I have the warranty information in hand, I would like to send them a token of appreciation. I have had bad luck with the different trades coming to the house (likely because I am a detain driven PITA, LOL) etc, and I think I may have found a good one and want to foster good relations. Would anyone have a good suggestion as to what would be a good thing to send?

 

[BNME8EZ]

Glad to hear you got satisfaction and you are happy with what they did. Hopefully this will fix all the issues you were having.

As for a suggestion as to something to send I guess it depends on how big the company is and how much you want to spend. A suggestion would be cater in a lunch for them or buy pizza, etc. The thing here is that many places once the techs leave the shop for the day they do not return and you would want to make sure that they get in on it.