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nisong

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
A CARRIER 30GTN025, KEEPS TRIPPING ON LOW PRESSUR IN WINTER(BELOW 20F) FOR THREE YEARS SINCE IT WAS INSTALLED, BUT IT WAS ALWAYS FINE IN SUMMER. CHARGED FREON TILL SUCTION WAS ABOVE LPS CUTIN,BUT THE DISCHARGE TEMP AND PRESSURE BECAME TOO HIGH AND BURNED UNLOADER PLASTIC SHELL.RECLAIMED THE OVERCHARGED FREON.THE INLET WATER TEMP WAS 58F,OUTSIDE TEMP WAS BELOW 20F,THE COOLER SUPERHEAT WAS ABOUT 20F.FIRST FAN RAN AT FULL SPEED.FOUND THE CHILLER INLET AND OUTLET WATER LINES ARE REVERSELY INSTALLED,THE INLET WATER TEMP SENSOR AND OUTLET WATER TEMP SENSOR ARE ALSO REVERSELY INSTALLED,BUT OUTSIDE TEMP WAS TOO COLD TO REPIPE. SO, I ADJUSTED TXV COUNTER CLOCKWISE FOR ABOUT 5 AND HALF TURNS, LOW SUCTION PRESSURE ALARM DISPPEARED AND SUCTION PRESSURE INCREASED TO AROUND 50. COOLER SUPERHEAT DECREASED TO 10F, LIQUID LINE PRESSURE WAS 120PSI, OUTSIDE TEMP WAS BELOW 20F, FIRST FAN RAN AT FULL SPEED,OUTLET WATER TEMP WAS AROUND 50F.THE UNIT HAD RAN FOR 24 HOURS, NO ALARMS.
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME,WAS THERE ANYTHING I DID NOT PROPERLY?
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
THIS UNIT DOES NOT HAVE ANY HEAD PRESSURE CONTROLL.THE FAN MOTORMASTER INSTALLED GOT BURNED,REPLACED IT WITH TWO NEW ONES,NONE OF THEM WORKED BECAUSE BEFORE CONDENSER TEMP WENT UP,THE UNIT HAD DISCHARGE PRESSURE TOO HIGH.SO,I REMOVED THE MOTORMASTER AND LET THE FAN RUN AT FULL SPEED.
 
I thought I was losing my mind but nope he started the same thread twice.

[Edited by websy on 01-20-2006 at 07:01 PM]
 
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
This chiller had run for more than 7 days after the txv adjustments without any alarms for the first time in 4 years. Maybe, I did the correct thing finally.
 
5 turns is extreme. you adjust txv by subcooling and superheat. you may trash your compressor.
you need a low ambient kit installed. motor masters and wind baffells. anytime the head pressure drops below 150 lbs your going to have oil pressure problems.
you need to turn the txv back in and repair correctly.
 
nisong said:
CAN SOMEONE TELL ME,WAS THERE ANYTHING I DID NOT PROPERLY?
IMO your approach to the whole problem is off. You responded to a low suction alarm on the chiller and tried several ways to resolve the "symptom" - the alarm - without thoroughly considering the source of the problem, and why.

Adjusting the TXV was absolutely NOT the solution. There was also no need to adjust the refrigerant charge if you did not suspect a leak or if the charge had not been adjusted previously by you or another tech.

Your problem may be a lack of understanding the dynamics a refrigeration system experiences under low outdoor ambient temperatures. Why must condenser or tower fans be moderated or cycled when outdoor temperatures drop below a certain point? It is because maintaining a minimum head pressure is critical to maintaining sufficient mass flow rate of refrigerant through the system at all times. If the ability of the cooling medium (air or water) to remove heat is substantially greater than the heat load being discharged to the cooling medium, head pressure will drop like a rock. There will not be enough pressure difference across the metering device(s), nor will there be sufficient flow of refrigerant through the evaporator to create enough refrigerating effect for the load, nor will it be enough for good oil return to the compressor.

So why did your low suction pressure alarm disappear when you unwound the TXV? All that was accomplished by that action was to increase the mass flow rate of refrigerant through the evap by creating less of a restriction via the TXV now being more "open". There are two closing forces at work in a TXV...spring pressure and evap. pressure. The only opening force is bulb pressure acting on the power head. When you backed off on the TXV's stem you reduced spring pressure (5 1/2 turns? WOW did you reduce it!) to where the power head had much less trouble overcoming closing forces already at low levels due to reduced mass flow rate and system pressures.

So...all that being said, what's the true solution? You must get head pressure modulation under control. If the present Motormasters aren't doing the job, they're likely not set up correctly. You need to find out where Carrier wants the sensor for that Motormaster to be placed, as it is critical. It's not a matter for guessing, as nothing else is on a machine like this.

This chiller had run for more than 7 days after the txv adjustments without any alarms for the first time in 4 years. Maybe, I did the correct thing finally.
Far from it, IMO. You've got a hornet's nest on your hands if you don't retun and do some corrective steps. For starters, I'd turn that TXV stem back in as many turns as I had backed it out. Then I would get head pressure under control (low ambient kit that WORKS). Next I would schedule a return visit to observe and adjust the machine under normal to high load conditions.

And...I'd avail myself to a deeper study of refrigeration theory and application so I could move past the ever sticky trap of guessing till I got what looks like a positive outcome, walking away only to face a callback in the future.

 
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Without reading everyone elses responses you need to keep the head at or above 150psi. Need some type of head pressure control. If the evaporator load is below the lowest available capacity reduction then you may need some hot gas controls to false load the evaporator. Check with Carrier they are usually pretty good with these...Hint rep makes the difference so you may have to call them direct for the proper answer.
 
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I'm with Shophound, on this one.
You have to understand, the physics of refrigerant, and go from there. A good knowledge of your prime mover and system components is a must.
Good luck.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
The cooler inlet and outlet chilled water pipes were reversely installed by those factory trained workers 4 years ago, also found the circuit board in the liebert air handler inside the building is wrongly connected to the chilled water three way valve, the valve could not open at all£¬the air handler control was also upgraded 4 years ago by factory trained technicians. Maybe,both installation problem caused the low pressure alarms(low load and false txv bulb sensing). since last adjustment, the unit had ran for more than 60 days without any alarm. Whatever,the summer is comming,today, I corrected the valve control problem and adjusted the txv back to factory setting,no alarms observed.

[Edited by nisong on 03-13-2006 at 11:15 AM]
 
bulldogker lu74 said:
I think you need to call in a factory trained UNION worker before you screw up this chiller and stick to the cheese factorys.
What the heck does this have to do with understanding a chiller? You pay dues. Big deal. Union techs call me every day for help. Get a grip. Union membership doesn't mean you know how to work on a chiller.
 
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