[agkeg85]

i had this Carrier infinity 5 ton system intalled the other week, and i believe theres a problem...

let me first say what i have, I have the correct N coil for the 5 ton A/C.

however i have it installed into my older 1 speed furnace, i plan on upgrading the furnace next year with a modern two stage as finances allow.

the problem is, that the air temperature coming out of my air ducts, doesnt go below 62 degree's fahrenheit when its only high 70's outside!!! and it varies, when the temps outside hit into the 80's the vent temp was more around 65 or higher.

I believe my old air conditioner got it under 50 degree's fahrenheit.

Can someone tell me what temperature the air coming out of my ducts should be at?

right now my home (3300 sq/feet) is taking over an hour per degree to cool.

Its been this way since the hour the installation was completed.

Things id like to know....

Can this be because my furnace is a single stage?

Is this because the airconditioner is stuck on "low"

I read in the manual for the air conditioner has low and high settings, depending on demand. Might it have been wired wrong , and its stuck everytime kicking on in low mode?

anyone point out some obvious things i can check on my own, before i pay another installer 80 dollars an hour to come out and check my system

----

I will get the carrier model number tommorow morning, its a 18 seer unit, but 15 seer unless you have a 2 stage furnace i believe i was told.

thank you guys for any help you can provide on this matter.

 

[Joe Harper]

call the installing company and have them check it out. It shouldnt cost you anything.

 

[Senior Tech]

I would hope that you would not have to pay to have it checked for proper installation/setup.

The supply temp relies on several variables, there is no "magic" supply temp number that can be given.

Bottom line is, there is truly nothing that you can check, the installing company should answer your questions and rectify any issues.

 

[agkeg85]

call the installing company and have them check it out. It shouldnt cost you anything.

I cant, they tried to rip me off on r410a they leaked out, and said they didnt have any leaks (which they had one, and it drained the system as they filled it the first time)

so they tried to charge me for 9 pounds of r410a, i was told that the system should only take 3 pounds, so i paid them for 7 hours at 80 an hour, +30 dollars per pound (3) of 410a, Owner said I was liar and they had no leaks, and that i owed him another $180 dollars. after that he got belligerant etc. Real bummer to deal with.

I was supposed to have a warranty but owner said that since i didnt pay for his leaked r410a i dont get ****.

Carrier doesnt care i filed complaint thats all i an do , and find someone else to do the work.

so .... the air temperature coming out of my vents doesnt sound abnormal to you guys?

 

[wormy]

http://www.residential.carrier.com/dealers/authorized.shtml

Go here and find another company that can check the system correctly.


As far as run time vrs temp drop.
THere's no way to predict that really.

If you're Old air conditioner was a one speed air conditioner.
It would cool the house faster and turn off and on more often.
Its akin to...
Try to maintain your cars speed at 55 miles per hour
When you reach 55... let off the gas completely
When it slows down a little... FLOOR IT!!!!
When it gets up fast enough... Let off the gas completely

With a two speed air conditioner....
Its akin to....
Try to maintain your cars speed at 55 MPH
Mash the gas pedal halfway (first stage cool.)
it slowly and comfortably gets the cars speed up to 55
it might even hang out there with the pedal mashed halfway
if you start going up a steep hill (gets hotter outside)
its gonna need a little help maintaining the speed
So you push the pedal all the way in to get up to speed (second stage cool.)
When you get up to speed
let off the pedal HALFWAY (goes back to first stage cool)

In effect, the air conditioner will just run sorta like its on cruise control.

If its not very hot outside, then the first stage cooling will
cool the house off and stat will turn the A/C OFF till it warms
back up a little.


The 'True' brains behind the Infinity system is in the Furnace.
So... you are not getting the full benefit of the infinity yet.

The 'board' in the furnace will communicate with the Infinity stat
and maintain the appropriate Cooling Stage
as well as adjusting the Fan Speed to match the Cooling stage.
SO... First stage cool.... will also have the airflow to match
Second stage cool... will have the correct airflow as well.

At the moment, it sounds like you have a single stage furnace
that will have the airflow (hopefully) right for ONE of the cooling stages.
And (hopefully) thats the second stage.

To simplify that.
More than likely you have
First Stage Cool.... Second Stage Airflow.... TOO HIgh of airflow... POOR Humidity removal... NOt a very good temperature difference between supply and return.

Second Stage Cool... Second Stage AIrflow(hopefully)... OK Airflow.... Should see difference of around 18 degree's (ballpark figure.... way too many variables to wright that in stone)


OH WAIT!!!
Do you have a thermostat thats set up for Two Stage Cooling?
If its a single stage stat... then the outdoor unit will need to be set up for
single stage operation (both stages ON during call for cool)
OR replace the stat with a two stage stat.
You will not be able to use the Infinity stat until the furnace is installed.
The infinity stat 'communicates' with the 'furnace board'
They 'NEED' each other

Its possible (unless its belt driven or something really odd) that the current furnace
can be set up to run on a lower fan speed
for first stage cool and a higher fan speed for second stage cool.
It would require a tech that knows what they are doing.
Wouldn't want them to screw up and have the blower running too low when
the furnace calls for heat. You'd end up needing a furnace a lot sooner than you'd want.

 

[agkeg85]

ok thanks for the info that makes alotta sense.

maybe ill move my schedule up to get a 2 stage furnace along with the carrier infinity thermostat. Hopefully thats the main problem.

I just went up into my attic and the insulated copper line has many area's on it where the insulation was completely ripped off and not covered back over, musta occurred while the installers were running it up there. and binded against the joices while moving it.

probably atliest 5 feet total of no insulation on that copper tubing... i wonder if that might be a major problem as well, i would imagine thats alot of cold loss when the attic is in full sun and well above 110 degree's.

appreciate the info guys.

 

[beenthere]

Screen your installers better next time.

 

[kevinmac]

It sounds to me you have a two stage system that is not going to the second stage when needed. Usually 2 stage systems will run on the smaller capacity 1st stage until the 2nd stage is called upon to play catch up or bring down the home temp from a higher temp when changed at the thermo.
The first stage is really just used to maintain the set temp, but can become to small when the outside temps start climbing, which of course will require the 2nd stage to kick in until the set point is met.

This is just my guess!

Report that installer to the BBB, and my only question is why is Carrier not helping you unless there is more to the story. Carrier has been pretty good from a customer service perspective.

 

[york_hvac]

Are you saying that you have an Infinity AC without an Infinity furnace or control? I didn't think that was possible, thought Infinity outdoor units only had ABCD bus wiring...

 

[agkeg85]

Are you saying that you have an Infinity AC without an Infinity furnace or control? I didn't think that was possible, thought Infinity outdoor units only had ABCD bus wiring...

that is what I am saying.

the manual for the A/C has the wiring diagram for non carrier control and 1 stage furnace. the thing can be wired like 5 different ways.


---

to the guy saying that carrier is great customer service? I called them up and they really didnt care, they said we will file a complaint (which doesnt sound like that will do anything) nothing else, and offered to give me another number off there certified Carrier installers list and pay for another guy to come out and possibly fix there problems

My original company, was already a carrier certified installer etc, they are on the Carrier site right now. The owner of the company wouldnt believe his guys leaked the 410a, me , my wife, my son all saw the guy with his detector running up to the attic tracking down the leak, but whatever :/

 

[MoveOver]

I cant, they tried to rip me off on r410a they leaked out, and said they didnt have any leaks (which they had one, and it drained the system as they filled it the first time)

so they tried to charge me for 9 pounds of r410a, i was told that the system should only take 3 pounds, so i paid them for 7 hours at 80 an hour, +30 dollars per pound (3) of 410a, Owner said I was liar and they had no leaks, and that i owed him another $180 dollars. after that he got belligerant etc. Real bummer to deal with.

I was supposed to have a warranty but owner said that since i didnt pay for his leaked r410a i dont get ****.

Carrier doesnt care i filed complaint thats all i an do , and find someone else to do the work.

so .... the air temperature coming out of my vents doesnt sound abnormal to you guys?

Did you buy the system from this co, or did they just do the install? Looks like you paid them on an hourly basis.

I have a similair system and it runs great but did buy the complete system installed.

Sounds to me that it runs only on low stage ( 60%?), with the furnace fan at high speed. When my runs on low stage the blower goes all the way down.

 

[plain spoken]

You have left way to many questions unanswered. Do you have a two stage thermostat? This system will never work properly with the single stage blower you have. When it goes to low stage compressor your blower will move way too much air. This will make the discharge air warmer but that is not the real problem. It will also not dehumidify at all. If you want the system to work as it should you will have to match it with the proper variable speed. Where did you get this unit? It appears you only paid for the installation, and that "someone" told you it would only need an additional 3#, you may have been mislead. I think there is more to this story than you have revealed.

 

[tbox8098]

I am goingto clear this up for you.

You have a 2 stage a/c and a single stage fan. this fan is set and running at a 5 ton capacity. however the a/c is only running on first stage ( 2.5) ton capacity.

THis is the reason that the air coming out of your vents is not very cool. The air is going across the coil at too fast of a speed to get the transfer.

If you want the system to operate at all you need to spend the money now and upgrade the furnace to one with a variable speed blower.

The installing company never should have sold you a 2 stage unit when you had a single stage indoor unit. I hope that you did purchase the unit from them and not from a buddy or online.

 

[Milk man]

Yea, where did you buy the system.