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No, opening the return won't help a thing. You have enough supply duct for a two ton system.

I had no indication on the Tstat as far as "low" or "high" but I definitely know it hadn't ramped up to where it did before.
So, once it does ramp up to 1560 and it's blowing thru the registers like crazy is there any way opening up the return air grill will help...I'm not thinking it will but that is what they want to do first.
The return air ductwork is hard sided and is the same dimension of the air handler... 24". It shoots straight up 9' or so up to the attic and immediately nineties into the air handler. The supply side coming out looks to be the same as the intake and then it narrows down what looks like 18" trunk line. Not that any of that matters but I have 11 lines coming off that going to the rooms upstairs. They all seem to be either 6" or 8" flex, no kinks, no super long runs except two that come off and go about 35' and 10' to each side of a bonus room over the garage.
I know if it was my business and I screwed up the sizing I would change out equipment or ductwork to make it right.
 
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I had no indication on the Tstat as far as "low" or "high" but I definitely know it hadn't ramped up to where it did before.
So, once it does ramp up to 1560 and it's blowing thru the registers like crazy is there any way opening up the return air grill will help...I'm not thinking it will but that is what they want to do first.
The return air ductwork is hard sided and is the same dimension of the air handler... 24". It shoots straight up 9' or so up to the attic and immediately nineties into the air handler. The supply side coming out looks to be the same as the intake and then it narrows down what looks like 18" trunk line. Not that any of that matters but I have 11 lines coming off that going to the rooms upstairs. They all seem to be either 6" or 8" flex, no kinks, no super long runs except two that come off and go about 35' and 10' to each side of a bonus room over the garage.
I know if it was my business and I screwed up the sizing I would change out equipment or ductwork to make it right.
Me and my wife just bought a new house. While house shopping, the level of craftsmanship for mechanical systems was appalling to say the least. We heard a lot of what you've said, guys saying things like "don't worry I've been doing this xxx years". Guess it's tough to do things right when you've been doing it wrong so long.
 
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No, opening the return won't help a thing. You have enough supply duct for a two ton system.
Agreed. 8x18 is sad.

Benny, as a side note, if you guys get ANY equipment you want some field testing on, or some..."stress testing".
Minisplits, geo, oil, whatever.
I'd love to try something out here.

I've been tossing around some geo thoughts, specifically a no pump but dump, that runs on gray water....
 
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Discussion starter · #44 ·
Over two months now and problem is NOT solved. They opened up the return air to what they say is a "5" ton size..24x30.

When in heat mode and I raise the temp 5 degrees it is ramping up to 1730cfm. To me that implies it's sensing restriction and ramping up to overcome it. Should not go over 1560cfm. But even at 1560 the registers are screaming. When it's at 1150 it sounds like when it's on Hi downstairs. The tech agrees it sounds WAAAY too loud but at this point is clueless. We went around and counted the CFM on the registers and they add up to 1600. Some are 100 and most are 150. The ductwork guy said the supply trunk is 18" and they only go up to 20" if it is a 5 ton unit. He said code here calls for .05--.08(don't shoot the messenger) and that is what they size it for. He said 20 years ago they would do .01...?
Bottom line is too much air is coming thru the registers. I think a 3 ton would have done the job yet the register sizes and quantity add up to 1600.
Are they figuring things wrong based on register sizes?
They said now I have to wait until the middle of December for the rep to come out and show the foreman the issue b/c he is out of ideas and he is adamant the sizing of the ductwork is correct. Geesh!
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
Ok. Is not figuring it by register size something I can prove to the contractor? Is there a bulletproof reference I can site? According to him this is the way he does all his houses. He said a 7" flex will flow (Ă—) cfm and u can only use one size register with that size flex. I u go to 8" u need larger registers.
Don't misunderstand me, I believe u guys, u have no bias here, and if his figuring was correct I would have no issues. He did mention he sized the house according to BTUS needed...blah blah. I seriously cannot believe if he is this far off how has he stayed in the business 40 years..?
 
Discussion starter · #48 ·
Rep came out today. As all of you have said the 4 ton is waaay to big. Static Pressure was okay but the flex is 8" and the registers are too small...in addition to too much tonnage.

So, what is reasonable? Not sure what contractor will want to do. The easiest thing according to the rep is put an 8000 with humidity on the unit and run only the first stage taking it
down to a 3 ton. But Between hacking up my air handler...twenty something times back in two years, what is fair. I'm thinking a 3 ton condensor and 3 ton communicating air handler...all new
but not sure if they will go for that. From your perspective what is fair?
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
Can anyone tell me if there are any complications if the communicating Tstat is removed and the 4 ton unit is only hooked to run the 1st stage?

According to rep it will be a 3 ton. Does the 10kw heat strip need a certain amount of air flow. It ramps up pretty heavily once the strip kicks on.
The plan is to do that first, see how it heats and if there is still too much noise they want to enlarge registers and possibly add a few more runs but to me the register noise is acceptable at 1150cfm but when it climbs to 1560 it gets too loud.
 
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again:
wet finger air rotation check:

4 Air-R's per hour is fast enough in a volume unless some commercial variable points otherwise, methinks; and so OEM's that I repped...

2400 sq ft + 2000 + vaulted above a 8.1/2ft interior wall height for averaging a lowest CFM in a two story:::
please consider this 3.1/2 Air Rotation calc:

like 2200 sq ft 2 story at 17ft 2 story height then for 3.1/2 changes per hour is about 60/17 divisor

2200 x17 div by 17 then is 2200 for getting to cfm of a typical 5.1/2 tons having actually a 5 ton compressor in the rated unit (outside labels are over-blown tons, poorer dehumidification)
and at even a less efficient
but better dehumidifying CFM of say 380 (per rated ton) minimal cabinet-box-rated tonnage is about
=
still way under 6 tons; which would freeze-dry a full basement too... by example, even with vaulted areas and but return air grills under 8ft heights to low grills.

in mid WV a 49k compressor r410 VARIABLE EER 34 groundloop system under 86f entering loops, too, to cool the compressor there is handling a well insulated 3700 sq ft over an uninsulated crawl - netting not more than 3.1/2 cooling tons, and freezing them to 73f and dry as desired.
That is called a 4ton ; but other companies call it a 4.1/2-ton by comparison on that model similarly reviwed looking in the cabinet vs outside labels of others, just FYI.
 
how do your ducts line up with a ductalator/program app shown at (high for me) .09 ESP supply calcs and .07 return air ducting per 100 ft lengths on the calculator...

now free apps that point to 6 ton loads in 4500 sq ft homes in a woods with shading, too, in zone 5 North OH ... are about 15% to 25% way too high, still, I have reason to believe... for 24/7 running multi staged, variable, or more than one unit in a space, effectually, with a party of 20 folks dancing over hot meals.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
Oh yes, icing on the cake. My original sq footage I posted was incorrect. We measured it....1844 sq ft upstairs. Contractor said he based his sizing on 1700 sq ft... :eek:.
No one has really commented on whether I should accept this or hire a bottom feeder. ..? Should I make them replace the entire system with the correct sized equipment?
 
Contractor should start from scratch with an actual Manual J and Manual D. Install the proper system from that.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
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Sizing based only on sq footage is unacceptable and incorrect. A physical load calculation, manual j and d, are required.
 
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Do you have a copy?
 
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