I put R22 in a 407c condensing unit. It was to replace some loss, and wasn't a large percentage, but maybe 10%. It ran for nearly 24 hours before I discovered the mistake. It cooled well enough. There was no excessive current draw. There was high head pressure. I would like to replace the refrigerant and have everything be just fine. What are my chances?
I mixed refrigerants. R22 and 407C. And ran the system for a day.
mustanger361
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A few years ago NYC got a new mayor. He informed the police department they will enforce Quality of life laws meaning A traffic cop Can bust a drug dealer if its going down in front of them. They weren't allowed before because they were assigned to traffic. As these arrests were being made all the time things began to get cleaned up. No Open drug dealings, no homeless spitting on your windshield and wanting a hand out. I saw a huge change in less then a year.
Laws without enforcement are worthless, including the little things!
BTW The new Mayor
Rudy Giuliani
Laws without enforcement are worthless, including the little things!
BTW The new Mayor
Rudy Giuliani
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Holy dogpoop! 40 posts to answer that simple question? <g> I'll have to poke through and see what you all have been explaining all this time. <g>
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Laws are passed to create the illusion of effectiveness for our elected officials.
Law Enforcement Costs are not funded because openly raising costs to the taxpayers costs their votes.
PHM
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Law Enforcement Costs are not funded because openly raising costs to the taxpayers costs their votes.
PHM
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IMO we might should apply this reasoning to many laws...
If they are not gonna be enforced...
WHY were they passed in the first place???
Food for thought...
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You would be amazed to know how many units are out there running just fine with mixed juices , and have been for years
Heard from a friend ....
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"R-22 is a bunch of chemicals with a boiler point at 70 degrees..."
For accuracy sake, the boiling point is 40˚ F at 70 psi...
And agreed, the boiling point of the alternatives is similar so at the end of the day, the evaporator will run in the 35˚-40˚ range. If I were to inadvertently "contaminate" a healthy 22 system with an alternative, I might would do the right thing...probably depend on the total system charge.
Virtually all the 22 equipment I deal with, leaks and should have been replaced long ago and doesn't run so hot on 22 so, whether it's 22 or an alternative or a mixture, the true evaporator temp is irrelevant. If the pressure is 65-70 psi and the suction line 50˚-60˚, there is some superheat and it'll blow cold air.
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What saturation temperature do you subtract from the suction line temperature to establish that there "is some superheat" ?
PHM
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PHM
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"R-22 is a bunch of chemicals with a boiler point at 70 degrees..."
For accuracy sake, the boiling point is 40˚ F at 70 psi...
And agreed, the boiling point of the alternatives is similar so at the end of the day, the evaporator will run in the 35˚-40˚ range. If I were to inadvertently "contaminate" a healthy 22 system with an alternative, I might would do the right thing...probably depend on the total system charge.
Virtually all the 22 equipment I deal with, leaks and should have been replaced long ago and doesn't run so hot on 22 so, whether it's 22 or an alternative or a mixture, the true evaporator temp is irrelevant. If the pressure is 65-70 psi and the suction line 50˚-60˚, there
"is some superheat"
and it'll blow cold air.
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SOME!
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What I was looking for here -
What you could try checking is the temperature difference between the outlet of the metering device and the outlet of the evaporator - or the inlet of the compressor.
You may also try noting how much the suction line sweats. Up to the compressor connection BUT not at all on the compressor shell gives you "some" indication. No cooling effect on the compressor shell immediately below the suction line connection can be important to note.
PHM
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What you could try checking is the temperature difference between the outlet of the metering device and the outlet of the evaporator - or the inlet of the compressor.
You may also try noting how much the suction line sweats. Up to the compressor connection BUT not at all on the compressor shell gives you "some" indication. No cooling effect on the compressor shell immediately below the suction line connection can be important to note.
PHM
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SOME!
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35˚-40˚...I'm not looking for an accurate superheat value. Just some confirmation there's enough to eliminate 0 and not so much as to undercool the pump.
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now you have something we call milkshake (or sometimes "batido" )
In 2012 I "accidentally" added 2lbs R22 to my 410a system. Then "some how" did the same to an R22 system with 407c.
It's my house so I left it. And they both still run. Neither has ever even broke down. Couldn't even tell a difference inside even though the R22 410a clearly had effects by guages.
I actually forgot since we bought a new house and gave my old house to my Mom.
It's not as detrimental as many think. Something one should practice or think its OK? definitely not. But I can assure you that here it's pretty common practice for companies to use 407 in lieu of 22.
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
It's my house so I left it. And they both still run. Neither has ever even broke down. Couldn't even tell a difference inside even though the R22 410a clearly had effects by guages.
I actually forgot since we bought a new house and gave my old house to my Mom.
It's not as detrimental as many think. Something one should practice or think its OK? definitely not. But I can assure you that here it's pretty common practice for companies to use 407 in lieu of 22.
Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
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410 is a blend, 407 is a blend that contains some of what's in 410 plus 134...if a mix of 32 or 125 and 134 will work in some fashion, adding one more something will work, in some fashion...the chemistry and physics involved are complicated and beyond my intellectual grasp but a considerable amount of the "science" I deal with every day exceeds my full comprehension.
We (most) aren't scientists or engineers...but we have some skills that enable us to make stuff work that wasn't working, oftentimes due to some empirical knowledge we have obtained through mistakes or creative hacks. Leaving a situation as is, rather than making it right, is not necessarily a dishonorable action...I walk away from stuff every day that isn't quite right, but it wasn't working when I arrived and was when I left.
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This is true but the slope of it's logic get slippery.
I experientially swirl a hundred factors in my head and conclude that the best thing in that particular case is to leave some partial not-right-ness in place.
My helper on that job notes only that I left the job at least partially incorrect and gets the idea that it's OK to do that. He doesn't know or understand the hundred factors that I used for my rationalization.
And on and on and on. <g>
To me the key is to Know and understand what Right is before you start deviating from it. Otherwise we get what we have now: a gang of halfazzed 'know-little and care less' people in "the hvac business".
I found it delightful just now that "the hvac business" was spell-corrected to: "the havoc business". Maybe spell-check is smarter than I thought. <g>
PHM
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I experientially swirl a hundred factors in my head and conclude that the best thing in that particular case is to leave some partial not-right-ness in place.
My helper on that job notes only that I left the job at least partially incorrect and gets the idea that it's OK to do that. He doesn't know or understand the hundred factors that I used for my rationalization.
And on and on and on. <g>
To me the key is to Know and understand what Right is before you start deviating from it. Otherwise we get what we have now: a gang of halfazzed 'know-little and care less' people in "the hvac business".
I found it delightful just now that "the hvac business" was spell-corrected to: "the havoc business". Maybe spell-check is smarter than I thought. <g>
PHM
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If you don't share some of your "understanding of what right is" with the helper, you greased the slope...:grin2:
I personally think that's an apples-to-oranges analogy...mixing 87 octane fuel with a 93 octane designed engine would be a better comparison.
I went back and read the #1 post...the guy added some 22 to a 407 system...I was thinking reverse, 407 added to a 22 system. In that particular case, the mistake may have produced positive results. :grin2:
If we want to talk in terms of idealistic professionalism, then replacing the 10 year old Genteq capacitor on a Trane unit with the whatever-you-have-on-the-truck brand capacitor, is less than professional. Or replacing an OEM 1050 motor with the whatever-you-have-on-the-truck 1075 motor is less than professional or...and the list goes on.
Professional integrity, in general, encompasses many levels, with mixing 22 and 22 alternatives being way down on the list of concerns. It just ain't that big of a deal practically speaking, especially when considering why a unit is running on an alternative in the first place...maybe the HO wouldn't/couldn't buy new equipment or pay for the leak repair or afford the price of 22. Whatever the explanation, the system is running at less than optimum performance. Whether you add 407 or 438 or 22, it's still going to run at less than optimum performance.
The fact the OP was adding refrigerant, means the system is leaking...the professional thing to do is fix the leak. But he was topping it off and it will need topping off again so next time, he can add 407. If he wants to maintain his "integrity", then simply inform the HO he inadvertently added the wrong stuff and that it won't affect the equipment operation...
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Hahaha.... it's got really good compression on the number one piston 😂
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