I like Stay-Brite 8, it is a great product but all the IOM’s I’ve read concerning R-410A say Braze Joints 15% or better. If you can get the manufacture to sign off fine if not then you know what has to happen.

Good Luck

 

Not only the manufacturer but there are state codes that don't allow Staybrite 8. NY had us cut out all the joints and apply 15% before they would allow a modular convenience store to be shipped and set. State said no Staybrite on AC or Refrigeration joints.

 

I would ask the inspector if it will pass code.It would not be up to code in many places.
This would put the ball in the other court I bet.

 

I have used it on 410 installs and TXV replacements. It will be fine.

 

Ive never used it on 410 but I think it'll be ok.

 

That's pretty much dead on. What works technically, and what's legally required. On a gas line, code requires brazing (>840F melting point) with non-phosphorus filler (so, it would be high silver or some exotic filler) or mechanical joint.

 

Thanks for pointing this out, ICanHas. I never knew that non-phosphorus filler rod needed to be used on natural gas piping. Copper gas lines are somewhat common in my area, and everyone I have ever known (including myself) who has needed to braze copper pipe together has used 15% sil-fos. I have never heard of an inspector in my area having a problem with it, either. I kind of wish I didn't just learn this. Very interesting.

 

The reason for no staybrite8 in commercial buildings on pipe systems would be to keep the joints from melting in a fire and introducing a ton of refrigerant.

 

International Fuel Gas Code and NFPA 54 National Fuel Gas Code are identical

Silfos 15 has 5% So if it has fos at the end it can not be used on gas lines

403.10.1 Pipe joints. Pipe joints shall be threaded, flanged, brazed or welded. Where nonferrous pipe is brazed, the brazing materials shall have a melting point in excess of 1,000°F (538°C). Brazing alloys shall not contain more than 0.05-percent phosphorus.

403.10.2 Tubing joints. Tubing joints shall be made with approved gas tubing fittings, brazed with a material having a melting point in excess of 1,000°F (538°C) or made with press-connect fittings complying with ANSI LC-4. Brazing alloys shall not contain more than 0.05-percent phosphorus.

 

For what it's worth, I didn't see anything condescending in ICan's post.


On an interesting side note about soft solder and what can happen to it during a fire....

A few years ago a commercial customer of ours had a fire in a mechanical room. Someone had stacked a bunch of cardboard near some water heaters and it caught fire sometime overnight when nobody was there. The fire got so hot that it melted the solder out of some fittings in some water piping above the fire, which caused water to spray out and put out the fire. The gas piping was threaded steel pipe, and it was fine.

The place was able to get the mess cleaned up and re-open a couple of days later.

That right there is proof of why I think it's ok for soft solder to be on water piping, but not gas. As far as products such as ProPress being approved for gas, I would guess that even if the rubber O ring inside of it melted, the resulting gas leak would be small. Not likely a complete failure like if a solder joint melted. At least I would hope so.

 

I've had this come up and I just redid all the joints with 15% or 45% depending on what flux was used.

 

I'm suppose to do a startup on a new 15 ton Trane split system. Straight a/c with a climate changer air handler and a TTA condenser. I call the foreman pipefitter to ask him what line sizes he ran as I have to pick up a lls and sight glass to install. He tells me he piped the whole system w/ staybrite 8 solder?

I feel like there hasn't been enough long term studies yet and we can only guess. Refrigerant at saturated temperature on 3/8 OD 5/16 ID exerts 30.7 lbs (117F) and 25 lbs (100F) of pulling force on the joint. The force is spread around the effective surface area of the solder wetted area. Solder expands quite a bit more than copper unlike brazing filler so every time it gets hotter it gets pushed and as it cools down it gets pulled/peeled. If you repeatedly bend a solid wire it eventually breaks. How soon depends on how far you bend it and how many times. When lead free solder was just getting put into use, this happened quite a bit with electronic devices. Real world has sunshine, acid rain and what not adding onto stress. It might live past labor warranty but how about long term and is it code in your area?

If I had to guess, the stress isn't quite as bad for straight cool resi compared to refrigeration condenser that swings from ambient to whatever temperature condensing coil is set to ramp up to satisfy head pressure control. If its not up to code wherever it is the only right thing is to redo it or you're selling watered down milk and hoping you don't get caught. If its ok by the code I think it would be a good idea to re-do just the connections where it would be exceedingly costly to repair down the road like behind permanent display or equipment that requires extensive disassembly before you even get to the wall.

 

Fair enough, I concede(give up) the argument at this point.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

Fair enough, I concede(give up) the argument at this point.

That's hilarious.

I agree, the overuse of quote marks and parenthesis is the bad breath of internet communication.