[ithinktherefore]

thanks all. New trane 3ton xl19 system was installed today. The box was rebuilt better than new, and it works great. Dropped the humidity from 80% down to 48% in under two hours.

It's only gotten down to 80 degrees so far, but it feels better in here than it did a couple weeks ago at 74. Anyway, I learned a ton on here, and my stop back by if I decide to do anything about the thermostat, ducts, etc... but it may be fine just the way it is. My bills are gonna go WAY down. There was nothing at all sealing the old box. there was just a giant hole cut in it where the return lines or whatever came through... and it wasn't sealed at all. There were just big holes leading from the garage to the intake. What a joke.

Anyway, I'm off to obsess on the next project. Gotta be a stucco forum somewhere. smell ya later.

thanx.

 

[mayguy]

Post some pictures of your results. We love pictures.

 

[ithinktherefore]

My camera broke last year... haven't replaced it yet.

Air is much nicer now with the lower humidity. Only issue is that the ducts seem especially noisy when blower hits it's high stage. Old system was so noisy in other ways though, maybe I just didn't notice before... or maybe this blower is more powerful... dunno. It's on lower speed most of the time, but it hits high a few times a day. By this afternoon, it'll be nearly 20 degrees cooler in here than outside. Last few days, I was lucky if I could keep it 6-7 degrees cooler. I don't miss that... or the swampy puddle in front of my air handler once the pan rusted through.

 

[pstu]

Good to have helped some

Your Trane uses a VS blower (like mine) which will probably apply more fan power than a standard air handler, in order to reach the CFM specified by the DIP switches. The result is it will often attain the classic 1200 CFM even if it means pushing ESP (external static pressure) up to 0.9 inch water column -- believe it or not this is still within design specs for this air handler. So at high speed it may well be pushing more air than your previous system, increasing the likelihood of rushing noise from some of the supply ducts. In my own system I calculate one flex supply duct must be moving 860 feet/min, way above the 700 limit in the Manual D rules.

My tech suggests the noise would be much reduced by replacing the cheapo plastic grills, with something made of aluminum that costs a bit. I wonder if any of the pros here would second that opinion as a partial solution to the noise problem.

Cannot help you on the stucco forum question, though<g>.

Best of luck -- Pstu

 

[dec]

Hummmmm sound like we just got humped and dumped......at least for information. Guess hes off to use the stuco guy next...... hope we dont need a shot to cure what we may have caught. lol

what a W$ore

 

[retired btc]

HeThoughttherforehewas lol Not to worry he will be back anybody that post 85 or so post that fast will most certainly be back for more info, at least he went with a Professional Installer and didn't buy his online as one of his first post threaten he was doing.

[Edited by retired btc on 06-04-2006 at 02:12 PM]

 

[ithinktherefore]

Hummmmm sound like we just got humped and dumped......at least for information. Guess hes off to use the stuco guy next...... hope we dont need a shot to cure what we may have caught. lol

what a W$ore

Awww! that's so sweet. he misses me.

Actually, I'm still keeping an eye on the cycles, and thermostat settings. It's definitely blowing harder on full than the other system. I'm still trying to figure out how it deals with humidity trigger on stat, etc. Also, who knows... I may end up enlarging vents in the future, maybe getting ducts cleaned... maybe something else with filtration... also considering adding 600 square feet to house... which would now have to mean another system for that zone. Also own another house I rent out. No AC problems so far, but who knows in the future.

As for the attitude... I suppose you think HO's should hang around forever and discuss dipswitch settings and load calculations ad nauseum once their system is up and running. Too juvenile to respond to really, but have a lovely day.

I'm a huge believer in forums. In the last two years, I've found enough advice to bring my credit scores up by over 200 points, buy two homes, redo flooring, soffits, stucco, landscaping design and installation, work with tennant law, buy two cars, and now AC.

Hmmm... let's see. I saved 70k off appraisal on the second house, 35k off appraisal on the first, over 6k off the TRADE IN value between the two cars... saved 75% off the average retail for the flooring which I then installed myself... saved 4k off the competitive quotes for the AC system install... All in all, what the research has allowed me to do is pay down the first house to where I'm at about an 6o% equity position in under two years... without ANY down payment. If moving forward in life by expanding my horizons makes me a w$ore, then "me love u long time."

 

[nina]

If the CFM troubles you, read the manual. The 7-dipswitches on the ECM board, switch 4 up will cause a little less agressive volume and help with dehumidification. Trane does not consider this DIY, just owner maintenance just like thermo settings.

 

[ithinktherefore]

Ahh... you're one step ahead of me. I was wondering two things. On was if there was some sort of dipswitch control over top speed, and the other is whether the speed of the blower has anything to do with the fact that I got the 40kbtu handler vs. the 37kbtu unit that's also indicated by trane for the 3ton.

I asked installer about both, but before I noticed noisy ducts on high speed. He said he set all dipswitches, and everything was set up right, and he said that the 37k was something they didn't use much for 3ton because they got better results with the 40k... but since the 37k was a little smaller, sometimes they'd put it in if the other wouldn't fit. Basically, he said the difference was bigger coil or whatever, so it could draw air over more surface area and be more efficient.... didn't ask him at the time about airspeed though.

 

[ithinktherefore]

Re: Good to have helped some

In my own system I calculate one flex supply duct must be moving 860 feet/min, way above the 700 limit in the Manual D rules.

I asked the tech about increasing the intake. He said we couldn't anyway with the space I've got there... but could run up to a 9inch flex if I wanted to later. I'm guessing it's on the other end, though... like skinny ducts or whatever. I don't hear a lot of noise at the intake grate, but I hear it coming out of the drops in the rooms.

I'll look at the manual to see about the dipswitch suggestion... maybe that's it right there.

 

[lightingguy]

I'm going through a process of shake-out of a Trane XL14i with the TWE37 VS air handler now, and if as nina says the dipswitch and thermo settings are owner maintenance instead of DIY, then you can find that info in the Installer's Guide, and on the sheet in the plastic sleeve Trane attaches to the inside of the air handler access panel. I'm an electrician, and the switch settings are clear.

I knocked the max cfms on the air handler down to 350/ton for better dehumidification and enabled Comfort-R. The installer hadn't done that (or properly sealed the ductwork, the air return, the openings in the attic air handler, or the ceiling cans to the inside of my drywall). I'm working on better humidity control by replacing a simple programmable stat with a stat that'll also call for dehumidification at low fan speeds.

The reduced cfms are definitely better for humidity control (we're suffering from a long stretch of cool, humid weather right now). In addition, the duct noise is reduced big time even though I have properly sized ductwork and good quality curved-fin grilles.

 

[ithinktherefore]

They didn't leave a whole lot of literature... I don't see anything in there about dipswitches.

Where are the switches exactly? I see a small door toward the top of the handler that says "air tite" on it. I took a quick peek behind, and I see insulation. Are they behind there?

the way you describe plastic wrapped sheets inside access panel sounds like a bigger panel. Are you referring to the big panel that door is cut into... the one that's basically the top half of the handler held on by little hex bolts?

 

[lightingguy]

Correct panel.

PLEASE NOTE: THERE IS LIVE 208/220 VOLT ELECTRICITY INSIDE THE UNIT, ***MUST*** TURN OFF THE POWER BEFORE OPENING ANY PANELS!!! (I'm an electrician, and I work with high voltages all the time, and I say this to everyone who isn't. You CAN kill yourself if you're not careful!)

Inside are all the hookups under a small L-shaped sheet metal cover, and there is also switch setting info on the internal blower housing, I think. But attached to the inside of the large cover first removed, there is a clear plastic sleeve that holds the maintenance info for the air handler, including a lot of info about setup.

The settings are pretty clear - for matching the size of the air handler cfm to the condenser, for the cfms per ton of cooling (standard is 400 according to the manual), and for setting the off-cycle fan delay (including the Comfort-R mode).

I noticed that Trane also warns TURN OFF THE POWER BEFORE CHANGING ANY SETTINGS!!

 

[pstu]

DIP documentation

There is a Trane publication called "SERVICE FACTS" which I received with my UD080R9V4K furnace/air handler. It contains much info on airflow and DIP switch settings. Probably your tech decided you did not need to have this manual, but if you ask him I bet it is available to you.

I did not see the admonition to turn off power before changing any of them, so must confess I just opened the panel and set them. I believe I was imitating what the tech did. My tech knows I did this and he seems to be not alarmed. Just concerned that I can explain what changes I made and why. One of the things I did was set Comfort-R to on, through an oversight he did not. When the duct noise was excessively loud, I set airflow to 350 cfm/ton which is recommended in humid climates.

On the second system when we learned it was really 3.0 ton rather than 3.5, I reset airflow to be 400 cfm/ton. Thru our mistake it had been running all summer at 465 cfm/ton which is not supposed to be ideal in a humid climate.

It is my opinion these changes are not controversial, however I am also very concerned about safety and not harming my equipment thru my own blunder. So far it has worked out OK, I hope it is knowledge and not just dumb luck<g>.

Hope this helps -- Pstu

 

[ithinktherefore]

Well, I just discovered that they disconnected my irrigation system when they switched out the breakers, and forgot to reconnect it. Even though I put the thing in, I lost the manual, and I've got 4 wires coming out, and don't know where they're supposed to go, or which ones are hi-volt or whatever, so I'm not going to mess with it to make sure I don't fry it.

I called the company and am awaiting a callback to schedule having them come and reconnect it. I figure I'll just have them do the dipswitches while they're here. What exactly should I say?

... that I want to limit the max pressure the blower puts out? Drop the CFM's down to 350? Check to make sure Comfort-R is enabled? Does this sound right?

 

[susa]

"...
As for the attitude... I suppose you think HO's should hang around forever and discuss dipswitch settings and load calculations ad nauseum once their system is up and running. Too juvenile to respond to really, but have a lovely day..."

keeping in mind that those are your words above and hoping you have a more humble attitude than what those words speak, but yes, you got the idea about what to ask the installer and they know how to check the switches and adjust the speeds.

 

[ithinktherefore]

He said they have to send someone over anyway because they need to do a test to see if the refrigerant level is correct with the lowered fan speed... otherwise it could freeze up if it has high charge, but low fan speed.

I'm assuming they're not gonna charge for this... proper setting on the fan speed is part of a proper install, right?

Oh, and they said that irrigation was disconnected because it was illegal jump into wrong size breaker... so gotta keep it disconnected for when the inspector comes.

 

[ithinktherefore]

Fan speed adjusted, coolant level chedked and adjusted.

System runs great. Thanks for all the input, guys.

 

[leapfrog]

You're welcome.

Just for future reference, coolant is something that you put in car radiators. REFRIGERANT is what goes in air conditioning systems. I'm sure you'd want to use the right term.

 

[ithinktherefore]

Hmmm... level looked ok on the dipstick....