I wouldn't guess..check the HX, if bad and the units are that bad, recommend replacement, if the customer is that tight, it's OK to fire a customer...tight now, they will be tight later...cut your current and future losses....the customer is always right however you get to select your customers:cheers:

 

Picture

RTU: this is the toughest one.

Sorry it wont let me fix the typo error in the header, stupid fat fingers.

 

That isn't hail damage.

PHM
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RTU: this is the toughest one.

Sorry it wont let me fix the typo error in the header, stupid fat fingers.

 

That is some pretty bad hail damage , the worst i have seen.:eek2:

 

Good thing about carrier is they keep making parts for all their old stuff, you'll just pay through the nose for it.
Those units have to be from the mid-80s, their insulation is packed with dust, the evap coils are probably packed with dirt and now you have condenser coils and heat exchangers to deal with.
In my opinion they're garbage, and not worth your time.
Who's to say you're not babysitting these every couple weeks once you do your repairs....
Run!!


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I would replace it. Common footprint on those so no curb if you stay with compatible units like similar certain Carriers, Lennox ZG series, and York CDR Prestige.

Coils are fairly available from aftermarket suppliers. Call Nation Wide Coil and talk to Ross, they are about half the price of OEM.
http://nationwidecoils.com/

As with others double check the HX on those units with the gas shut-off. Fairly easy by accessing blower compartment and removing HX panel below main blower. Usually find rot and rust outs at collector box near inducer.

Good Luck

 

All 3 units look like this one?

 

That's not hail damage. Well, it might have started out as hail damage, but I suspect someone having fun with a pressure washer caused most of that.

As everyone else said, tell the guy the units are beyond repair and that you highly recommend new units. If he really insists on wanting them repaired, it can be done though. I would say to budget at least 8-10 hours to replace the heat exchanger and condenser coil on each unit. Plus you'll need to figure out how to get the stuff up to the roof. You might be able to rope them up with a helper, but I would be worried about damaging the condenser coils by doing it that way.

On second thought, since you're going to need a crane either way, just tell the guy that installing new units is the only option.

 

Going to cost him more to repair those then replacing them would. Why waste the money on units that old ? Got a serial number for those ?

 

The only numbers I could see where on the aluminum plate by the gas inlet, everything else is shot. No idea what the Serial#'s would be.

The kicker is the job is 80 miles away, I didn't even what to go look but I do work for him locally. I'll work the numbers so that replacement is the only way to go. Or work them so he uses someone local. The only roof top I was involved with I was a rookie and used more for muscle than anything. From what I remember it was pretty easy, I know the boss made big bank!!!
As always thank for the insight.
Mike

I told him to check his insurance policy also!

 

48CH500032 AND 48CR500032

Those are some odd model numbers.

 

Those are the 50 series of today's units if I'm not mistaken...A helper and I did 12 of those in 8hours with 1 recovery machine, 2 vacuum pumps and 1 set of torches.(each was triple evac'd and pulled < 300 microns)

The coils were more then 50% of the cost of the new unit, but it was insurance. They are really easy to replace...

 

If it is hail damage and can be proven, he MIGHT be able to use insurance to cover depends on coverage and clauses? We do not see a lot of hail in my part but did have a freak storm come through a year ago, very localized. Many coils were severely damaged beyond repair on a facility and we replaced them, the job was approved and they were reimbursed through their insurance company.

 

80's units with bad heat exchangers and condenser coils…probably bad CFM's as well and blower motors. Quote him a price on 3 new units and don't forget inspection fees and the hoist….and if they are 5 tons or over, they need smoke detectors (here they do anyway).

If no, I would walk.

 

New, or not you.

 

Easy one: get paid up front for the job. Then while you are installing the heat exchanger have your helper sitting on a bucket straightening condenser fins with a small screw driver before combing them into good order afterwards. Oh sorry; I meant to say in the beginning: make sure to get paid up front for the job.

PHM
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You touch those things with a cheap owner and you'll own them forever. I'd guess I'll you'd hear is "You were just here and it's not working again, you said it was fixed!"
Been there before. No matter what else breaks you'll have always just been there and they will complain about the bill. Equipment has a lifespan, and those are beyond it.

 

I hire a rigger that gets the unit, stores it, delivers it, rigs the old/units, and takes the junk away. I watch , and write a check. Then I charge a markup to my customer. Thank you very much Mr.Customer.

 

Yeah....I have to admit, installing RTU's is one of my favorite sources of income. :yes:

 

Nobody see the irony of trying to get a Carrier to work in Lennox, SD?

Gotta be breaking some ordinance here!

 

Nice catch!

 

Dude this is a great experience for you!
You said you don't have much RTU experience. After you replace those junkers you will! When you a gas/electric that old with coils like that... Do what everyone here is telling you. Sell them a new one and get 50% up front at least. How's the ductwork inside? Hot spots? Check the whole shebang out. Even tight wads have to have heat/cooling. You gotta sell yourself to the man. He's been ripped off too many times. Sell him the whole package, duct repair/replace, programmable stats, point out energy savings etc.
If he goes with some hack then he'll just be calling you back in six months anyway.


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You are right Scott, but it also is $9000 worth of equipment. I have no idea what a crane is going to cost, it is 80 miles away, not sure what permits I will need. I'd love to do it but not sure if I'm to this level yet. Scared I would under bid it and loose my butt.

 

Is someone else in the trade you know willing to go in on this with you? Those really should be easy change outs as a lot of brands make models for those old carriers. New units require a economizer, maybe a new stat, electrical service outlet, start up sheets, permit, electrician costs, etc etc . The building dept would be a good place to start to see what all will be required. Then is it like for like ,as in cooling or heating loads. Once you get 1 rooftop change the next will be easier. And then the payment issues, a lot of the cost will just be the equipment, shop the diff brands and you may verify the duct work on them,and the utility connects on each. Some will more like for like than others which makes it a lot easier. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Have SLCTECH make a road trip and get you all laid out, he may work for beer.

 

Give him many beer so he heads north instead of west- I would love to have SLcTech up here to straighten up a few more Lennox Proctologys.

 

You can get the crane company to look at which one they will need and its cheaper sometimes for the bigger crane even tho set up is longer.

 

His secret is out ,will work for beer and a internet connection.

 

I think those things had to be torn down most of the way to put an exchanger in it. Though it's been YEARS since I did one of those. Does that have a sideways exchanger like the newer carriers?

 

Those are pretty quick to do a heat exchanger, pull the blower door, the center post to the left of the blower compartment and burner rack and screws and out she comes. Most will need the assoc baffles orifice plate and retainer. Tube of high heat silicone and 2-3 hrs later done. Save all the extra white gaskets you get in the bag kit , they are handy for a lot of things. I try to include new burners also and inducer assem. Check and set gas pressure and no more stank smell.

 

you may not even be able to install them legally. Here in Mn they wouldn't meet the commercial energy code (seer and gas AFUE).