[rebeltech]

Hi guys,
I have a techs saying that..."you can replace the outdoor 410a 13seer without replace the indoor r22 13seer coil". Just flush the lineset and run nitrogen through the coil to use for r410. I would like to get some opinion on it.
Thanks

 

[Freezeking2000]

Not a good practice to compromise the efficiency, warranty and shorten the system life by not installaing a matched system.

It is a decision most people regret in a short while.

 

[garyed]

Depends on the manufacturer of the indoor coil. If the indoor coil is rated for 410A it shouldn't be a problem.
How much any oil left in the system after the flush effects longevity is the only thing that remains a mystery.
Since the procedure is relatively new in the field its probably going to take another 5 to 10 years to collect any solid data.
I have one that I did a few years ago and have not had any problems so far. My biggest concern is whether a manufacturer will void the warranty if the system is not a factory match.

 

[newoldtech]

How are they flushing the line set? I doubt if someone is just going to change the outside unit they will cut the lines at the evaporator. The most they would probably do is run nitro through the lines and evap from the outside valves.

 

[mgenius33]

Hi guys,
I have a techs saying that..."you can replace the outdoor 410a 13seer without replace the indoor r22 13seer coil". Just flush the lineset and run nitrogen through the coil to use for r410. I would like to get some opinion on it.
Thanks

There are HACKS, and there are PROFESSIONALS. It's just depends on what type of buyer you have. There are many "penny wise" buyers. Of course, the Hacks appeal to them.

Professionals typically deal with educated consumers.
This is because professionals put in the effort to educate, not only their customers, but also themselves.

 

[Mr Bill]

My biggest concern is whether a manufacturer will void the warranty if the system is not a factory match.

On my invoice from the supply house.

 

[klee7013]

How are they flushing the line set? I doubt if someone is just going to change the outside unit they will cut the lines at the evaporator. The most they would probably do is run nitro through the lines and evap from the outside valves.

We have done some and we will do some more.

We cut lines at air handler. Flush line set. Blow nitrogen through indoor coil. and re install correct piston/ txv.

If the manufacturer will say it will work.
And hopefully we can save the customer a few $.
Or get them by for a few years until they can afford change the AH out.

But i agree not the best practice. But it does work and i have not seen any thing go wrong with them "yet" other then not a correct seer rating. But with the duct work in most homes anyways they are not going to get all the benefit of the energy efficiency anyways.

 

[klee7013]

On my invoice from the supply house.

We dont see that around here.
Our ruud supply house. Sells to one man and a truck unlicensed all the time. (The manager says he doesnt but i know he does because one guy that buys them used to work for us)
He installs them then calls us because he does not know how to troubleshoot a x13 motor, or to trouble shoot bad txv etc.

 

[Mr Bill]

Our ruud supply house. Sells to one man and a truck unlicensed all the time.

I am seeing this more and more all the time, there used to be one or two supply houses that sold to anyone, I personally know of 5 now. I personally know the owner of one of them, he has made a fortune selling to anyone. I guess soon someone will file a discrimination law suit and make all supply houses sell to everyone, it's the way of the world now.

 

[jcrew4242]

Depends on the manufacturer of the indoor coil. If the indoor coil is rated for 410A it shouldn't be a problem.
How much any oil left in the system after the flush effects longevity is the only thing that remains a mystery.
Since the procedure is relatively new in the field its probably going to take another 5 to 10 years to collect any solid data.
I have one that I did a few years ago and have not had any problems so far. My biggest concern is whether a manufacturer will void the warranty if the system is not a factory match.

I heard that all indoor coil released after 2008 are rated for both R22 and 410a.
i also heard that not only the oil will be the problem but also 410a is much more higher pressure. The indoor coil might not able to last long.

 

[54regcab]

Supply houses can make a lot more profit when selling directly to hacks/homeowners since they can get away with charging them a lot more than licensed contractors. Then there are all the online sellers...

As far as the 410 unit on a R22 coil consider the old coil is much smaller than a new coil of the same tonnage. And how nasty is that old R22 coil that was installed 15years ago? Do you really think airflow will be fine?

 

[garyed]

......
As far as the 410 unit on a R22 coil consider the old coil is much smaller than a new coil of the same tonnage. And how nasty is that old R22 coil that was installed 15years ago? Do you really think airflow will be fine?

If I understood the OP right it sounded like he had a 13 SEER R-22 coil already. In that case there shouldn't be any problem with the size of the coil as far as 410A is concerned since the indoor coil has the same SEER rating as the new unit would have. I've seen a lot of mismatched R-22 systems outlast a lot of factory matched R-22 systems so I think the jury is still out on the R-410A change out thing. As for the R-22 coil being able to handle the higher pressure, I'm not so sure they made 410A coils any different or used any thicker copper. I wouldn't be surprised if all they did was tested the coils at a higher pressure to rate them for 410A. I'd like to hear from someone familiar with the manufacturing process what really changed.

 

[54regcab]

If I understood the OP right it sounded like he had a 13 SEER R-22 coil already. In that case there shouldn't be any problem with the size of the coil as far as 410A is concerned since the indoor coil has the same SEER rating as the new unit would have. I've seen a lot of mismatched R-22 systems outlast a lot of factory matched R-22 systems so I think the jury is still out on the R-410A change out thing. As for the R-22 coil being able to handle the higher pressure, I'm not so sure they made 410A coils any different or used any thicker copper. I wouldn't be surprised if all they did was tested the coils at a higher pressure to rate them for 410A. I'd like to hear from someone familiar with the manufacturing process what really changed.

If it is 13SEER it makes me wonder what killed the relatively new outdoor unit. Didn't the 13SEER minimum hit about the same year that R22 systems weren't supposed to be installed anymore? But I agree, if coil size and pressure ratings are the same there shouldn't be any differences between R22 and 410 coils. IMHO newer coils are using thinner copper, hence why we find so many leakers.

 

[garyed]

I'm pretty sure the 13 minimum came out in 2006 and the no more R-22 units came out in 2010 so there is a 4 year gap.
In 2006 Goodman started rating their air handlers for both R-410A and R-22 on the unit plate. I've noticed now that their air handlers are only rated for R-410A. My guess is after the law went into effect for R-410A they dropped the R-22 rating.

 

[jcrew4242]

i always wonder if the flush really can help with the old R22 oil.
it happened once to me that even i replace the filter plus using the flush.
there is still some acid inside the unit.

 

[beenthere]

If it is 13SEER it makes me wonder what killed the relatively new outdoor unit. Didn't the 13SEER minimum hit about the same year that R22 systems weren't supposed to be installed anymore? But I agree, if coil size and pressure ratings are the same there shouldn't be any differences between R22 and 410 coils. IMHO newer coils are using thinner copper, hence why we find so many leakers.

No one said it wasn't a new air handler installed on an old R22 condenser. And now the old condenser died.

 

[beenthere]

Hi guys,
I have a techs saying that..."you can replace the outdoor 410a 13seer without replace the indoor r22 13seer coil". Just flush the lineset and run nitrogen through the coil to use for r410. I would like to get some opinion on it.
Thanks

Yes, you can do it. Just need to give it a good flushing.