[mzaslavsky]

Dear all,

I'm sorry for layman questions and terminology I use. I used to have an electric heat pump at my townhouse unit but its outdoor condenser unit has just died. In particular, its fan came off and fell down. Because it got rusted, byt anyway my contrator suggested either repair or replacement. Replacement costs 5 times as much as repair and he is pushing for that, so I'm curious if his reasoning makes sense. He says that since my current unit used R-22, it doesn't make sense to repair because it will be banned in a couple of years. Because of its environmental effect, as I understood. He said that even now R-22 prices are very high, so soon it would be either impossible to get it or one would have to pay some enormous price. Also, he says that when R-22 will be banned completely, the prices for R-410 units will be way higher. Does it make sense? If yes, does it mean that all owners of R-22 units will be screwed?

Thanks in advance!
Mike

 

[Bazooka Joe]

They do make alternative replacement for R22, that mirror closely the operating pressures of R22 at a lower cost. I personally don't think R22 equiptment is going away anytime soon, especially packaged units in residential and certainly light commercial use such as roof top units on commercial buildings.. certainly I may be in the minority in that thinking.

No mention from him that there are alternative refrigerant instead of R22.....certainly he can make more money on a new system than keeping your old unit going.

You just can't mix R22 with alternative.

You only mention that the fan fell off and dropped, not the fan blew a hole in the outdoor coil and released all refrigerant and damaged the compressor due to no low pressure control to shut off compressor.

As long as you do not have a leak, why would you have to replace a unit, just because the refrigerant will not be produced in the coming years?

 

[mzaslavsky]

They do make alternative replacement for R22, that mirror closely the operating pressures of R22 at a lower cost. I personally don't think R22 equiptment is going away anytime soon, especially packaged units in residential and commercial use such as roof top units on commercial buildings.. certainly I may be in the minority in that thinking.

No mention from him that there are alternative refrigerant instead of R22.....certainly he can make more money on a new system than keeping your old unit going.

Thanks for your answer! So you think that repair makes perfect sense, right? Yes, that person didn't do any inspections of the unit on a regular basis.

 

[fliks]

407c is just one of the refrigerants used in place of r22. Its much less expensive and does very well. Others are also available.

 

[bhenry1013]

This seems like a scare tactic, Yes, R22 is being phased out, and will no longer be made soon, unless your unit has other issues, I personally would just fix the fan. Keeping in mind, he is right about one thing, if you pay to fix that today, and it has a freon leak tomorrow, than it would be spending good money for nothing if you need to replace the unit anyway. Its your choice to take that risk, but don't let him bully you into buying something your not ready to buy.

If you are going to replace the equipment, than shop around, get more bids, ask friends and family who they use for their heating and air and get bids from them.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

Thanks for your answer! So you think that repair makes perfect sense, right? Yes, that person didn't do any inspections of the unit on a regular basis.

If your only problem is the fan motor and blade and the bracket is reusable or they make universal bracket and the system was working fine before all this, and your unit gave you minimal trouble and still in good overall condition, non leaking unit, myself ...I would lean to repairs, providing the person doing the repairs does a high quality professional repair.

R22 system are not going away anytime soon, it's not like Commercial building owners or residential owners are going to replace a perfectly good operating HVAC unit just because they are eliminating virgin R22 production. It's not like they have all that disposable cash laying around and there is no law that says you have to at this time, that I'm aware of. There are Companies that purchase used R22 refrigerant and process it ( reclaim ) to like new condition, along with alternatives. When they have alternatives and reprocessing used R22 that tells me there are still tons of R22 units out there in the real world and a market for it...

Certainly others here will disagree, but without seeing your unit, that is my opinion....

 

[mzaslavsky]

If your only problem is the fan motor and blade and the bracket is reusable or they make universal bracket and the system was working fine before all this, and your unit gave you minimal trouble and still in good overall condition, non leaking unit, myself ...I would lean to repairs, providing the person doing the repairs does a high quality professional repair.

R22 system are not going away anytime soon, it's not like Commercial building owners or residential owners are going to replace a perfectly good operating HVAC unit just because they are eliminating virgin R22 production. It's not like they have all that disposable cash laying around and there is no law that says you have to at this time, that I'm aware of. There are Companies that purchase used R22 refrigerant and process it ( reclaim ) to like new condition, along with alternatives. When they have alternatives and reprocessing used R22 that tells me there are still tons of R22 units out there in the real world and a market for it...

Certainly others here will disagree, but without seeing your unit, that is my opinion....

Thanks! Sorry for one more layman question. Couple of years ago another contractor did a maintenance check up of the unit and I remember he had to add quite a bit of freon. Before that the unit hasn't been inspected for at least two years. Does it mean that there was (and probably is) a freon leak or for two years without check up it is normal?

 

[kdean1]

Mike, you did not mention any damage to the outdoor coil. I have encountered condenser fans that fell and cut the coil, thus loosing all the refrigerant. If that happened to your unit, the repairs must address possible moisture infiltration which is detrimental to the refrigeration system. That may affect your decision to repai or replace.
If you decide to repair the unit, an alternative refrigerant is a valid choice.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

What does use. " I used to have an electric heat pump at my townhouse unit but its outdoor condenser unit has just died. In particular, its fan came off and fell down. "

"Used " ...to me means you no longer have it, if you still indeed still have it and you did not loose refrigerant ( as kdean1 suggested )due to the fan blades blew a hole in your coil and ruptured it causing all the refrigerant to be release. Then yes, IMO it's worth a repair, again proving you have had trouble free operation prior to this, the equiptment is in good overall condition...

If the Tech. Actually added refrigerant 2 years ago and your system has been Cooling nicely last year and this year prior to the the fan motor/bracket issues tells me you have a very very very tiny leak.

If the Tech. Just told you he/she added refrigerant and that person actually did not ( to make an extra buck ) then you actually do not have a leak. Myself if your only complaint is the fan motor/bracket issue, to me anyway I would lean toward you do not have a actual leak.

Again all this is just my observation and opinion from far far away, without seeing your system or having a history report of your system....

 

[beenthere]

How old is the unit? Depending on age, it could be better to just replace it.

 

[timebuilder]

One of the metrics for your decision is how long you will remain in the property.

 

[vstech]

Fan blade rusted off and fell down...

How does the system look? How bad is the rest of the unit?

Why did it rust apart?

Would a new fan blade fix the unit?

Does it need a new motor also?

What is the overall condition of the system?

I have seen condensers in such bad shape you didnt have to pull any screws to access the parts... you could count all coil tubes... etc...