Have a Rational Model # SCC-101 E , thats getting Error Code # 25 . I opened the control box , set dip switch # 1 , and entered diagnostic test mode and ran through them , but nothing appears wrong . Some direction would be great from those who familiar with this model . Thanks
Dakota11
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Service 25 refers to the cleanjet system, used to clean the oven cavity. More specifically, it indicates the computer did not sense a slowdown of the blower wheel when it sprayed water over it.
Typical points are failure of the cleanjet pump (Not the boiler emptying pump), quench solenoid not functioning (it supplies water to the wash system.)
Start a wash-without-tabs cycle, look for water coming out of the cleanjet outlet port in the top.
Typical points are failure of the cleanjet pump (Not the boiler emptying pump), quench solenoid not functioning (it supplies water to the wash system.)
Start a wash-without-tabs cycle, look for water coming out of the cleanjet outlet port in the top.
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> I suppose my best way is to remove them and test them on the bench as both SSR's supply both steam
> and hot air heating (dual relay but independent control) so no way to know which one is supposedly shorting,
Hurgwash. You, as an degree-carrying type person should know how to test failing or failed SSRs.
The simplest way is to idle the machine, put your amp-clamp on each wire to the heater(s) you are working on. If the SSR is stuck/shorted you will have amps flowing when there shouldn't be. End of test- replace *all* SSRs in the unit per Rational.
The second way is several manufacturers spec a certain amount of voltage drop across a loaded SSR. When the voltage is over spec (.5 volts? I forget), the SSR is considered ready to fail, and you then, again, replace *all* the relays.
> t must be a controls issue as there are no sensors for power
If the computer senses an increasing temperature that continues after it has removed control voltage to the SSR, it knows the SSR has shorted.
We were told to always have our update usb stick in place before turning on a new unit/board, period, then *always* re-do the self test.
> Yep they cannot reject my qualifications
If you are not a Rational certified tech, they get really pissed. Ask my former general manager, a great tech, but had never been to the school.
> and hot air heating (dual relay but independent control) so no way to know which one is supposedly shorting,
Hurgwash. You, as an degree-carrying type person should know how to test failing or failed SSRs.
The simplest way is to idle the machine, put your amp-clamp on each wire to the heater(s) you are working on. If the SSR is stuck/shorted you will have amps flowing when there shouldn't be. End of test- replace *all* SSRs in the unit per Rational.
The second way is several manufacturers spec a certain amount of voltage drop across a loaded SSR. When the voltage is over spec (.5 volts? I forget), the SSR is considered ready to fail, and you then, again, replace *all* the relays.
> t must be a controls issue as there are no sensors for power
If the computer senses an increasing temperature that continues after it has removed control voltage to the SSR, it knows the SSR has shorted.
We were told to always have our update usb stick in place before turning on a new unit/board, period, then *always* re-do the self test.
> Yep they cannot reject my qualifications
If you are not a Rational certified tech, they get really pissed. Ask my former general manager, a great tech, but had never been to the school.
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> would not go into diagnostic mode when putting dip switch 1 to on
Just for everyone's edification, the actual position of that slide switch doesn't matter, it's the change of position that matters when the unit is on.
In other words, you can power up the unit with the switch "on", then after bootup slide to "off", and you can access your service menu.
Just for everyone's edification, the actual position of that slide switch doesn't matter, it's the change of position that matters when the unit is on.
In other words, you can power up the unit with the switch "on", then after bootup slide to "off", and you can access your service menu.
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> i cannot put the machine into idle, nor can I test the SSR's as you describe. The machine will not energise the contactor that supplies the SSR's
To be clear, when you press the "on" button, the computer comes on and displays service 20 (20.1, indicating B1), buzzes for 30 seconds, without K1 energizing?
And this is on a SCC not SCC WE unit, yes?
> ridicule me for having a degree
Think outside the box, my man:
To test the SSRs, just push in contactor K1 manually, even with the unit switched off, with your amp-clamp on one phase at a time. If one is shorted, at least one leg will show amp draw (1 leg only if element is shorted to gnd, 2 legs if just SSR(s) shorted internally)
But, as you say, in any event, the service 20 stops any normal operation. All I can say is, if B1 is good, and is connected to the correct pins, and the board is showing it as bad, the board must be bad.
Does the board accept the USB stick software update when powered up before showing service 20?
Lastly, 3 things to try: Try leaving the unit switched on, and either unplug it, or flip the line breaker 3 times in succesion. On the older SCC units this will do a soft reset.
On the older SCC units, you can hard reset the board by removing the coin battery on the computer board, removing the com cable (cat 5) for 20 seconds or so. Put the battery back in, reconnect the com cable. (Maybe insert the USB update stick here if available) Power up and wait a few while it resets. This does not work on the newer SCC WE units.
I'd also try removing a com bus cable on either the computer or motor etc, and then starting the unit. Communication errors take presidence over some functions, and might confirm the board is bad.
To be clear, when you press the "on" button, the computer comes on and displays service 20 (20.1, indicating B1), buzzes for 30 seconds, without K1 energizing?
And this is on a SCC not SCC WE unit, yes?
> ridicule me for having a degree
Think outside the box, my man:
To test the SSRs, just push in contactor K1 manually, even with the unit switched off, with your amp-clamp on one phase at a time. If one is shorted, at least one leg will show amp draw (1 leg only if element is shorted to gnd, 2 legs if just SSR(s) shorted internally)
But, as you say, in any event, the service 20 stops any normal operation. All I can say is, if B1 is good, and is connected to the correct pins, and the board is showing it as bad, the board must be bad.
Does the board accept the USB stick software update when powered up before showing service 20?
Lastly, 3 things to try: Try leaving the unit switched on, and either unplug it, or flip the line breaker 3 times in succesion. On the older SCC units this will do a soft reset.
On the older SCC units, you can hard reset the board by removing the coin battery on the computer board, removing the com cable (cat 5) for 20 seconds or so. Put the battery back in, reconnect the com cable. (Maybe insert the USB update stick here if available) Power up and wait a few while it resets. This does not work on the newer SCC WE units.
I'd also try removing a com bus cable on either the computer or motor etc, and then starting the unit. Communication errors take presidence over some functions, and might confirm the board is bad.
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They don't go over every service error code at training class- it would take a month. It's all in the book. They focus more on the physicality of the components- removing a motor, etc.
Usually SSR failures are easy to find, as a high limit will trip. You reset and check idle amp draw.
23 refers to the steam circuit rising to over 212 degrees F for more than 60 seconds, 24 is the hot air rising by 200 degrees for 60 seconds without being commanded.
Usually SSR failures are easy to find, as a high limit will trip. You reset and check idle amp draw.
23 refers to the steam circuit rising to over 212 degrees F for more than 60 seconds, 24 is the hot air rising by 200 degrees for 60 seconds without being commanded.
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> next to a wall with 1" gap
Shoot the installer! Rational specifies when a unit is installed, you need 20 inches to the left.
Truthfully, if I was still a tech, and was called to that machine, I'd refuse to even work on it until the factory spec was met, warrentee or not.
Many times I have refused to install/set up or startup a unit that was like yours. Man, the fire would fly out of the contractor/owner/whoever. But, nope, sorry, I wasn't going to do it. I had a new shop manager question my refusal at a military base on a 6 202G machine install. I brought him, the GC and maint folks to the site, handed him my toolbag and said, get in between these machine right next to each other and take the side cover down, think about changing a motor or gas valve, or getting the boiler out for descale. They poured a new concrete slab the same day for us.
Shoot the installer! Rational specifies when a unit is installed, you need 20 inches to the left.
Truthfully, if I was still a tech, and was called to that machine, I'd refuse to even work on it until the factory spec was met, warrentee or not.
Many times I have refused to install/set up or startup a unit that was like yours. Man, the fire would fly out of the contractor/owner/whoever. But, nope, sorry, I wasn't going to do it. I had a new shop manager question my refusal at a military base on a 6 202G machine install. I brought him, the GC and maint folks to the site, handed him my toolbag and said, get in between these machine right next to each other and take the side cover down, think about changing a motor or gas valve, or getting the boiler out for descale. They poured a new concrete slab the same day for us.
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>Actually 2” is all they require
That's on castered table models. From a manual:
Minimum clearance left/ right/ rear 2” (50
mm) (except floor models).if on castered
stand with flexible connections, that allow
unit to be moved forward while still
connected to gas/ele. water
On floor models there must be a minimum clearance
of approx 20” (500 mm) on the left side of
the unit, for installing the power cable.
That's on castered table models. From a manual:
Minimum clearance left/ right/ rear 2” (50
mm) (except floor models).if on castered
stand with flexible connections, that allow
unit to be moved forward while still
connected to gas/ele. water
On floor models there must be a minimum clearance
of approx 20” (500 mm) on the left side of
the unit, for installing the power cable.
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339 Posts
> Castered or not, the OP’s 101 only requires 2” on the left side.
They are showing you that if it's set into an alcove, you only need 2 inches to the left, with the understanding (The wrench on the left is crossed out) that it will be on casters and have enough conduit/cord/hose/drain piping to be able service it by pulling it out.
In any event, OP says he has a 61e on top of the 101, so it's not on a table with casters, it's a floor model without casters.
They are showing you that if it's set into an alcove, you only need 2 inches to the left, with the understanding (The wrench on the left is crossed out) that it will be on casters and have enough conduit/cord/hose/drain piping to be able service it by pulling it out.
In any event, OP says he has a 61e on top of the 101, so it's not on a table with casters, it's a floor model without casters.
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Ok. While I'll admit you are demostrably correct with Rational's left side spec of 2 inches to a wall, I am troubled, however, that a tech who works on these units often would, apparently be comfortable about installing it this way, knowing the next tech to come along will have to drag the unit(s) out to troubleshoot and work on it, like OP here. Even now as he tells us is has casters, but is still in a difficult-to-access place on his cook line.
I could swear that during training, Pete (Mr Ego incarnate
, specifically said they wanted to see 20 inches to the left, and we should reject an installation that didn't have that. That, however, was 11+ years ago, so my memory may be fuzzy.
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339 Posts
Did you get a chance to remove the battery and the com cable to do a hard reset?
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