I am looking for a good replacement for R22, Looking for something that you can add with r22 and one that you have to remove r22 and replace, the price of r22 is killing my customers who just do not have the financial means of replacement
coach07
There is nothing you can "ADD" with R-22
What Application?
Complete recovery and evacuation, drier changes, some need POE oil or oil changes.
What Application?
Complete recovery and evacuation, drier changes, some need POE oil or oil changes.
I have been using RS44b
RS-44b (R453a) is the newest R22 drop-in replacement refrigerant in the U.S. market. RS-44b has been sold worldwide for the past 5 years, branded as RS-70 outside the US. It is the closest replacement to R22 that operates with very similar discharge pressure, cooling capacity and flow rate as R22. It requires no oil or system component changes and has the lowest GWP of any HFC R22 replacement in the market at 1664 TAR. RS-44b is a PROVEN R-22 replacement now being manufactured in the United States. RS-44b (R453a) is an improved version of our very successful RS-44 (R424a) and has the following advantages.
RS-44b advantages are:
RS-44b has the same flow rate as R22
RS-44b operates at a similar discharge pressure as R22 and lower pressure than R407A & C, R422B & D, R417a and R427A.
RS-44b has the benefit of lower energy consumption;
RS-44b operates at near cooling capacity of R22 in both A/C and Refrigeration applications down to -20⁰F evap. temp
RS-44b is the lowest GWP HFC R22 replacement on the market at 1664 TAR and is Zero Ozone Depleting.
If a service technician inadvertantly mixes RS-44b with R22 there will be no harm to the system components or system efficiency. We know this to be true because in Europe, where there are no regulations against mixing refrigerants, our European sister company has tracked these developments. In the USA, the EPA does not permit or condone the intentional mixing of refrigerants.
RS-44b is good for cap tube and TXV systems. It has been operating in all types of systems with all types of compressors worldwide since 2013.
RS-44 is produced in Texas, the UK and Spain.
RS-44b requires no oil or system component changes
RS-44b (R453a) is the newest R22 drop-in replacement refrigerant in the U.S. market. RS-44b has been sold worldwide for the past 5 years, branded as RS-70 outside the US. It is the closest replacement to R22 that operates with very similar discharge pressure, cooling capacity and flow rate as R22. It requires no oil or system component changes and has the lowest GWP of any HFC R22 replacement in the market at 1664 TAR. RS-44b is a PROVEN R-22 replacement now being manufactured in the United States. RS-44b (R453a) is an improved version of our very successful RS-44 (R424a) and has the following advantages.
RS-44b advantages are:
RS-44b has the same flow rate as R22
RS-44b operates at a similar discharge pressure as R22 and lower pressure than R407A & C, R422B & D, R417a and R427A.
RS-44b has the benefit of lower energy consumption;
RS-44b operates at near cooling capacity of R22 in both A/C and Refrigeration applications down to -20⁰F evap. temp
RS-44b is the lowest GWP HFC R22 replacement on the market at 1664 TAR and is Zero Ozone Depleting.
If a service technician inadvertantly mixes RS-44b with R22 there will be no harm to the system components or system efficiency. We know this to be true because in Europe, where there are no regulations against mixing refrigerants, our European sister company has tracked these developments. In the USA, the EPA does not permit or condone the intentional mixing of refrigerants.
RS-44b is good for cap tube and TXV systems. It has been operating in all types of systems with all types of compressors worldwide since 2013.
RS-44 is produced in Texas, the UK and Spain.
RS-44b requires no oil or system component changes
If a service technician inadvertantly mixes RS-44b with R22 there will be no harm to the system components or system efficiency. We know this to be true because in Europe, where there are no regulations against mixing refrigerants, our European sister company has tracked these developments. In the USA, the EPA does not permit or condone the intentional mixing of refrigerants.
This makes alot of sense to me ,,, Thank you
This makes alot of sense to me ,,, Thank you
Should say that the EPA does not condone mixing refrigerants unless the manufacture of the equipment requires it. Stupid ass EPA barely knows the difference between it's butt and a hole in the ground. It's more about politics than anything a reasonable human being would consider proper.
I hear a lot of 'big talk' at the supply houses about topping off with a replacement for 22... mostly residential guys (hacks)...
We never do!
I have converted lots of units to 407C... which is the only one that Copeland recognizes at this time.
I notice there are less and less 22 resi units out there... so it will not be that much longer before 22 is not that big a deal in resi.
Now in commercial (for me, coolers and a few older RTU's)... we will see.
I am converting one circuit of an older AAON RTU to 407C in a few weeks... unit is getting a new pump.
We never do!
I have converted lots of units to 407C... which is the only one that Copeland recognizes at this time.
I notice there are less and less 22 resi units out there... so it will not be that much longer before 22 is not that big a deal in resi.
Now in commercial (for me, coolers and a few older RTU's)... we will see.
I am converting one circuit of an older AAON RTU to 407C in a few weeks... unit is getting a new pump.
Not sure if you were talking to me...
Converting that circuit in the old AAON to 407C... that is the only 22 substitute we use.
Why??? Because it is what Copeland recognizes (the only one Copeland recognizes).
And it is the one I use in coolers (mostly reach-ins).
No point in carrying around any more jugs of juice than I have to...
22
407C
410
Is enough!
Converting that circuit in the old AAON to 407C... that is the only 22 substitute we use.
Why??? Because it is what Copeland recognizes (the only one Copeland recognizes).
And it is the one I use in coolers (mostly reach-ins).
No point in carrying around any more jugs of juice than I have to...
22
407C
410
Is enough!
The only thing you can mix with r22 is... r22.
if the customer (my customer, too) is too cheap to replace the equipment then they can have the opportunity to pay full price for whatever refrigerant the original equipment calls for. sooner or later they will get a clue. it's called the "incentive program"...
if the customer (my customer, too) is too cheap to replace the equipment then they can have the opportunity to pay full price for whatever refrigerant the original equipment calls for. sooner or later they will get a clue. it's called the "incentive program"...
I'm looking for a replacement for R-22, for older equipment that would involve very little replacement of parts, or oil, Trade Name RS-44 (new composition) --- ASHRAE Number R-424A ---
https://www.epa.gov/snap/compositions-refrigerant-blends
I Fully understand that the R-22 would have to be removed from the Equipment, & I also would replace the Liq. line filter drier. I Absolutely am not speaking of a "Add to" Freon, that would be mixed with the R-22.
The Main reason that I'm now looking for a "Replacement" for the R-22,is that I Stocked Up, on several of the Freons that drew the wrath of the Tree Huggers, & were phased out, or are near being phased out, & they are now very close to being used up.
I also didn't "Jump on the Band-wagon", of replacement Freons cuz' I knew that just like Politics/ Religion, & Lunatic Fads like "POKEMON GO!", that many would quickly lose their Appeal, turn out to have many problems, &/or turn out to be a total Farce.
Now, after researching this, ..... Just like Politics & Religion, ...... There are many different "Camps of Thought", ... And many, many sources claiming that "They are the Right One".
Guys, ... Isn't there a Replacement for R-22 that has Stood the Test of Time, as well as Laboratory, & Field Conditions, that could be used as a Reliable & Efficient replacement for Equipment that still has several years of Life before it?
https://www.epa.gov/snap/compositions-refrigerant-blends
I Fully understand that the R-22 would have to be removed from the Equipment, & I also would replace the Liq. line filter drier. I Absolutely am not speaking of a "Add to" Freon, that would be mixed with the R-22.
The Main reason that I'm now looking for a "Replacement" for the R-22,is that I Stocked Up, on several of the Freons that drew the wrath of the Tree Huggers, & were phased out, or are near being phased out, & they are now very close to being used up.
I also didn't "Jump on the Band-wagon", of replacement Freons cuz' I knew that just like Politics/ Religion, & Lunatic Fads like "POKEMON GO!", that many would quickly lose their Appeal, turn out to have many problems, &/or turn out to be a total Farce.
Now, after researching this, ..... Just like Politics & Religion, ...... There are many different "Camps of Thought", ... And many, many sources claiming that "They are the Right One".
Guys, ... Isn't there a Replacement for R-22 that has Stood the Test of Time, as well as Laboratory, & Field Conditions, that could be used as a Reliable & Efficient replacement for Equipment that still has several years of Life before it?
IMO...
407C is the logical choice.
WHY???
One reason is Copeland approves it for their pumps (the ONLY one Copeland approves).
The oil thingy and the seals thingy is not a big deal on residential AC's or small refer installs...
And generally we do not work on more complicated stuff.
We do not replace R22 coils anymore without a conversion...
Which is one way to get folks to get a new AC/coil or new system...
407C is the logical choice.
WHY???
One reason is Copeland approves it for their pumps (the ONLY one Copeland approves).
The oil thingy and the seals thingy is not a big deal on residential AC's or small refer installs...
And generally we do not work on more complicated stuff.
We do not replace R22 coils anymore without a conversion...
Which is one way to get folks to get a new AC/coil or new system...
That's why I'm asking Ga-.
Copeland appears to have allowed some "Wiggle room" on the Freon, per this chart:
http://www.emersonclimate.com/Documents/93-11.pdf
-----------
And the 407, per the chart, is sub-divided in to 407 (A), (C), & (F), which to me only complicates the matter further.
My work covers Low, Medium, & High Temp Applications, & Copeland is not the only Manufacturer that I run in to on the Equipment.
I was hopeful that after all of these Years, that all of the "bugs", turmoil, etc., would have been greatly eliminated by now, & that there would be a Majority consensus, about the Retrofit Freons.
From Researching the matter,......it appears to be far from that. :grin2:
Copeland appears to have allowed some "Wiggle room" on the Freon, per this chart:
http://www.emersonclimate.com/Documents/93-11.pdf
-----------
And the 407, per the chart, is sub-divided in to 407 (A), (C), & (F), which to me only complicates the matter further.
My work covers Low, Medium, & High Temp Applications, & Copeland is not the only Manufacturer that I run in to on the Equipment.
I was hopeful that after all of these Years, that all of the "bugs", turmoil, etc., would have been greatly eliminated by now, & that there would be a Majority consensus, about the Retrofit Freons.
From Researching the matter,......it appears to be far from that. :grin2:
It’s pretty hilarious to me that everyone is so scared of mixing refrigerants, but the same crowd wholeheartedly supports buying epa approved “mixed refrigerant” all day long!?
I use RS44b all the time on old R22 systems with no adverse affects whatsoever. We always reclaim and properly dispose of any remaining R22 of course, before charging fresh with 44b. No oil changes, no seal changes... nothing other than replacement of refrigerant.
I have a friend who inadvertently added 44b on top of R22, to multiple systems and he says they acted no differently than if he had added r22. The system he did this to is still running strong today.
The glide that would be created by inadvertently adding 44b to an r22 system would be no different than the temperature glide associated with 410A (410a is a blend of HFC32 and HFC125). The stated temperature glide of 44b is 4.2 degrees... while the temp glide of 410a is .5 degrees, and r22 @ 0 degrees (not blended)... regardless, if your system is being calibrated with r22 pt, and you have more than 5 degrees superheat... it’s still vapor. With superheats running @ 10 to 20 degrees, this is negligible, and within range of most target superheat recommendations.
To call blended refrigerants a hack job would imply that all blended refrigerant manufacturers are hacks.
There are things that matter, and there are things that don’t.
System being tight and moisture free, with proper subcool and superheat...... MATTERS.
Refrigerant blends with extremely close PT ranges, with the possibly a little glide... DOESNT MATTER... at least to the mfg’s of blended refrigerants.
RS44b also proports itself to be the lowest global warming potential refrigerant for R22 replacement on the market, as well as the closest match in capacity to R22.
http://advreftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ART-RS-44b-Brochure.pdf
The writing is on the wall.
I use RS44b all the time on old R22 systems with no adverse affects whatsoever. We always reclaim and properly dispose of any remaining R22 of course, before charging fresh with 44b. No oil changes, no seal changes... nothing other than replacement of refrigerant.
I have a friend who inadvertently added 44b on top of R22, to multiple systems and he says they acted no differently than if he had added r22. The system he did this to is still running strong today.
The glide that would be created by inadvertently adding 44b to an r22 system would be no different than the temperature glide associated with 410A (410a is a blend of HFC32 and HFC125). The stated temperature glide of 44b is 4.2 degrees... while the temp glide of 410a is .5 degrees, and r22 @ 0 degrees (not blended)... regardless, if your system is being calibrated with r22 pt, and you have more than 5 degrees superheat... it’s still vapor. With superheats running @ 10 to 20 degrees, this is negligible, and within range of most target superheat recommendations.
To call blended refrigerants a hack job would imply that all blended refrigerant manufacturers are hacks.
There are things that matter, and there are things that don’t.
System being tight and moisture free, with proper subcool and superheat...... MATTERS.
Refrigerant blends with extremely close PT ranges, with the possibly a little glide... DOESNT MATTER... at least to the mfg’s of blended refrigerants.
RS44b also proports itself to be the lowest global warming potential refrigerant for R22 replacement on the market, as well as the closest match in capacity to R22.
http://advreftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ART-RS-44b-Brochure.pdf
The writing is on the wall.
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