[maxair]

Considering relocating to St louis area so I could
be closer to family.I am not familiar with unions
or the way they operate.Contacted sheetmetal workers
local#36 and pipefitters local #562 to ask questions.
The answers they gave were not clear.I am a commercial
tech with 9 years field time and 18 months tech school.
which would be better for me pipefitters or sheetmetal
workers?

Will I have to go thru apprentiship or can I take a
test, which would be fine by me, and get my Journeyman
card?

Is the union the way to go? Alot of guys on here bash
the union saying its to political. My dads in the UAW said without it your screwed.

Opinions appreciated.

 

[sline-dawg]

Hope someone

Can help you with this bro.....

Maybe go non union shop... commercial ??

Tinners union treated me pretty good, and got a few bros that fit pipe... they do ok too....


What do you want.... and what will you settle for ??


Big town, has to be lots of work.

 

[kwan79]

I'm in the same boat as you. I will be moving to St. Louis pretty soon and don't really know what to do. I was an HVAC tech in the Air Force for 6 yrs. Kind of afraid of moving actually. Don't really know what to expect overthere.

 

[maxair]

What I want?

Good days pay for good work.
Training stay on top things.
What is the difference in sheetmetal workers and
pipefitters? When I talked to the guy at he mentioned
alot about residential and light commercial.He said pipefitters did the large commercial in st louis
county but every body did out of the county.
Who gives the best trainig and year round work.Union have
alot of lay offs in the st louis area?
I stared in hvac with 18 months tech school 10 1/2 years
ago.Certified 4 areas NATE,universal epa tons of additonal
schooling.Does eveyone have to go thru an apprentship training
or can he test his way into jouneyman?
anyone with insight would help

 

[neophytes serendipity]

I am union, but not in St Louis. I am sheet metal.

In my area, pipefitters do not do sheet metal. They do piping for large commercial systems (chillers) and commercial refrigeration/medgas piping. That is just a quick summary.

Sheet metal workers do the ducting, architectural metal and sometimes the whole job on residential work (electrical, linesets, gas pipe, etc).

The pipefitters will install the piping, insulators will do their thing, then a sheetmetal guy will install the lagging.

That's not to say that pipefitters claim sheetmetal work and vice versa.

As an observer here, I have not seen pipefitters working side by side with me put in the same number of hours that I do on a job, but they certainly aren't making less.

I have never received formal training from my employers- even though I have asked.

My local has plenty of opportunities for training, but it is on your own time. The training is "free", but there are "scholarship loan agreements" to be signed. Basically, if you leave the union to continue in the sheet metal industry, you will get a bill (it is prorated, though).

Some halls will sell cards- some won't. You will have to speak to a business agent to find out how your case will be dealt with. My local claims that they will not sell cards when members are on the bench out of work...

There may also be some subcatergories involved. There is a "service fitter" that does work with sheet metal in my area. A service technician in my sheet metal local stands a good chance of doing smaller traditional pipefitter work in addition to plain old sheet metal. It is difficult for a sheet metal worker to get into the service side, though. No one wants to pay journeyman rates to find out what you know...

The big question you need to ask your potential locals is what is the seasonal unemployment rate. Everyone has layoffs. There are members of my local that have been out of work for over a year, and others that get as much overtime as they want. The union should be able to tell you the average time off for their members.

The good old boy network is alive and well. The locals you are looking at may not want an outsider. Do they have a timeframe where anyone off the street can take a test and apply for an apprenticeship? My local does.

 

[supertek65]

st.louis is very pro union. they do not like guys to come into the pipefitters union unless they go through the app program. if you came to kc you could come thru mes program we have year round work pipefitter 533 $35.00 hour plus benes totaling $51.00 hour I worked 2,333 hours last year and am on track for 2,400 this year.I do not know the rules of this sight if you can call me or e-mail me i would be glad to talk to you about it.

 

[tech_in_kc]

Hey Supertek...I am in KC and tried getting into union shops this spring and summer with no luck. I am 34 with 6 years residential and light commercial. What is this MES program you speak of and how do poeple get in?

 

[supertek65]

hey tech in kc,
mes is mechanical equipment serviceman. if you can get hired from a local 533 service company, the program is designed to get good techs away from the non union sector or "open shops" if you will. ofcourse timing is everything! get your resume to 533 service companies in March April when they need guys. there are other programs like "tradesman" where you do not get journeyman pay until they pick you up so to speak. You could also just go through the program. it starts at or about $19.00 per hour with full benefits and paid medical. The way to go is to find contractors. the hall will not help you if you are not family.

 

[hillbuck]

Im a 5th yr app with UA local #94.In our area,sheetmetal doesnt do nearly as well as plumbers/pipefitters.We have both unions represented in our service department.While I see no noticeable difference in the techs(ability,attitude...)I do see a 5-7 dollar an hour difference in pay.It could be made up for in bennies.Im not familiar with the whole s/m package.Good Luck.

 

[chaard]

Just posted similar question in the tips and tricks forum. I live in st. louis and even non-union shop employees are supposed to have a pipefitters lic or a sheetmetal lic. i don't have even an apprenticeship card. Pipefitters lic. is supposed to be more difficult to get, but pays better. I'm looking to get my lic. I need the books to study. Any help?

 

[idontgetit]

562 has its pro's and its cons.

They tend to be involved in politics here (st louis) and they try and make it tough on non-union companies.

Pay rates vary a LOT in the non-union sector, especially in the residential catagory. More than a few less than stellar companies will hire a clean cut total newbie and send em to the wolves for 12 bucks an hour while charging out journey level. The good news about that is the decent companies have good bennies and good to great pay.

If you really know what you are doing getting 25 to 35 an hour is not outside reality at all and having year round work as well.

Take a look at stltoday dot com and search on the jobs tab, right now in the middle of Jan there is likely more than 50 adverts for techs.

 

[soccer21804]

I know the local i was in 782 pipefitters we could test in i did got my journeyman and master in hvac and plumbing from them i was a low voltage control tech with both plumbing and hvac service so they kept me working i got out when they said they were joining another hall to make one

 

[chaard]

I know the local i was in 782 pipefitters we could test in i did got my journeyman and master in hvac and plumbing from them i was a low voltage control tech with both plumbing and hvac service so they kept me working i got out when they said they were joining another hall to make one

Now what sense does it make to get everyone in a union when so many are trying to get out? Unions are over-rated.

 

[supertek65]

unions

I do not know where you live, but we had over 2,000 applicants for the apprenticeship program this year.
I have only heard of one guy ever leaving the 533 out of about 1,500.
His wife got transferred to Arizona and he went there and joined the union.
our benefit package is about $53.00 per hour and we work a lot. I worked 2,400 hours in 06.
Where is everybody trying to get out of the union?
All you have to do to get out is quit.
It only takes one second.
It takes years to get in.
frank

 

[chaard]

Just talked to a former co-worker who has been trying to get in the union here in st. louis. After passing the requirements, he was 12th on the list. He waited months without a job to get called. Now the pipefitters union is laying off and he has no idea where he is on the list. So he went a got a non-union job and doesn't think he will take the pipefitters job when and if it comes available.

I just want a union lic. to get better pay. I don't want to join the union. It makes no sense to get a job making a few dollars more and then get laid off indefinately vs. staying with a co. that might pay a little less and getting yr. round work. Plus I don't have to sit on a picket line in the rain.

 

[airjordan]

You do not have to be in the Union in st louis to get a Pipefitters or sheet metal workers license. You can go to st louis county and st louis city and get a license. But will need proof, and original transcript, all of your w2s to prove 9500 field hours, then you have to go to classes to keep your license.
Take a test pass, get your license, get a job.
So, just get you st louis county license and find a job that pays at least $28 an hour plus benefits. Doesnt have to be union. I would get your pipefitter license because you can do more with that.

 

[chaard]

You do not have to be in the Union in st louis to get a Pipefitters or sheet metal workers license. You can go to st louis county and st louis city and get a license. But will need proof, and original transcript, all of your w2s to prove 9500 field hours, then you have to go to classes to keep your license.
Take a test pass, get your license, get a job.
So, just get you st louis county license and find a job that pays at least $28 an hour plus benefits. Doesnt have to be union. I would get your pipefitter license because you can do more with that.

Yeah, I know. I need to get my sh*t together so I can go get my license. Would like to brush up first before taking a test.

 

[anthonyca]

If you are a productive worker any good employer will do what ever they can to keep you making money for them. I am with Local 38 in San Francisco and have been with the same employer for almost 8 years and never worked under 2100 hours in a year. Unless there is a resesion half of the guys that get laid off are not the best employes and the other half ask to be laid off for a month or so to take time off and they can afford it because we make 45$ an hour plus ot and dt. The shop supplies the truck and tools. Another thing is that most guys that get laid off are strictly construction and not service and they get picked up fast by another company who has the work.

 

[wolfstrike]

near Los Angeles there are unions that are sheet metal only , and i found another one through the plumbers & fitters that does refrigeration.

refrigeration may be the keyword you're looking for.

the LA unions accept people with experience to bypass the apprenticeship program ,i assume 9 years would qualify, but i don't know for sure.

 

[forever chilled water]

I've been in the trade for thirty something years- twenty of them union. The apprenticeship programs are one of the best reasons to join a union. You learn everything you need to know. I've never heard of being in the tin knockers union if you want to do service. Steamfitters or pipefitters is the union you want to be in.

The good thing about unions are the benifits- no company that's non-union can even come close. Everybody in your family is taken care of (not to mention your retirement)