How long ago was the install done?

 

How do you know they didn't pull a vacuum on it? Most times I'll start my vacuum pump and finish runing the wiring and condensate drain, so I'm still working instead of watching the pump.

 

You could end up with moisture and non condensible gas in the system. Depending on the amount in the system you may not have a problem, you may have a problem relatively soon, or it may show up later.

Moisture can cause icing at the expansion valve, breakdown of the refrigerant oil (which absorbs the moisture) and in a worst case the oil could leave a green slime in the system.

Other gases in the system can result in poor, erratic and sometimes difficult to diagnose performance issues.

It is a matter of how he did the job, and how deep of a vacuum he pulled, and how long he left it under vacuum. If there is significant moisture, it must boil off under vacuum. Icing and other issues can slow the process and sometimes requite that the vacuum be held for a few house till all of the moisture boils off. If the guy was impatient, he may not have been able to achieve 500 microns due to moisture, and just gave up. Not good practice.

Paul

 

Air and acid in system.

 

Acid?....yummy! Just kiddin!

 

Pulling a vacume

Thanks, everyone for your responses. The system is 5 years old. I have had performance issues, if some of you remember. At the initial install, I ask one of the techs to make sure they pull a vacume to 500 microns, like it said in the Carrier installation book. He said, "it takes too much time to pull that deep of a vacume", that 350 or 400 is good enough. Then the TXV only lasted three years, and the heat pump compressor shuts down around 0 degrees F, and they don't know why. I have always felt I have had installation problems from the git go. Heat pump works great in cooling mode, though. Just thought that on original install not pulling a vacume to 500 microns might be a lot of my problems.

Thorton
_____________________
Birthdays are good for you
The more you have, the longer you live

 

Thanks, everyone for your responses. The system is 5 years old. I have had performance issues, if some of you remember. At the initial install, I ask one of the techs to make sure they pull a vacume to 500 microns, like it said in the Carrier installation book. He said, "it takes too much time to pull that deep of a vacume", that 350 or 400 is good enough. Then the TXV only lasted three years, and the heat pump compressor shuts down around 0 degrees F, and they don't know why. I have always felt I have had installation problems from the git go. Heat pump works great in cooling mode, though. Just thought that on original install not pulling a vacume to 500 microns might be a lot of my problems.

Thorton
_____________________
Birthdays are good for you
The more you have, the longer you live

This is why we don't tell homeowners how to fix HVAC issues , no offense but it's not something you learn over night
If you're trying to make the heat pump do all the work at 0 Degrees that's a problem also

 

You obviously have no clue as to what you are even asking about since 350-400 microns of vacuum is better then 500 microns of vacuum.

Why are you trying to discredit your installer on a forum that is made up of professional installers?

Your system ran for three years without a problem? My guess is that you may be the problem; STOP WORRYING THE SYSTEM TO DEATH!

 

Well, sir, your right to a point. It was 5 years ago, when the system was installed. Maybe I miss understood what the tech said. But your right, I did think that pulling a vacume to 500 microns is better then pulling a vacume to 350 or 400 microns. Although, he did say they didn't have time to pull 500 microns of vacume. This being said, It's my perogative if I want to question if my system was installed properly or not!!! I paid for it. NOT YOU! They (installing contractors) can't fix the heat pump, they call Carrier before they make a move. Lots of other good techs on here can't understand why they call Carrier all the time. Maybe your one of those techs that has to call the maufacturer all the time, too! You don't have to be an Einstein to figure out there are incompentent installations done all over the USA & Canada. Maybe you should read the residential posts a little more carefully. Or stay in the "professional" section, it seems your more suited to that section.

Thorton
_________________
Tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may

 

If they installed a LL drier,moisture issues are long gone,asssuming you have not had refrigerent problems,leaks.

 

On a new system install with new refrigerant lines and coil, it takes my evac rig less than 10 minutes to pull a system down to under 200 microns.
Largely because there is nothing but nitrogen in the system by the time I'm ready to fire up the vacuum pump.

 

Mark,
I'm impressed! Now I'm going to have to keep an eye on you.

Jabs

 

Did you have a complete new system installed, new outside unit new inside coil new refrigerant piping. Then 500 mics should be easy If you only had half a system installed he may need to leak check.

Was this a bid situation, where did this contractor come in? ......be honest now!

 

Yes, Roscoe, it was a completely brand new system. Everything was changed including the refrigerant lines. Carrier 38YZA heat pump and FV4A fancoil all controlled by a Carrier Thermidistat. The first year year of operation I pre-selected heat strips to come on at 15F. But felt that having the heat strips come on at that temp made the system short cycle. So the second year of operation I pre-selected 5F as a base point for the heat strips. Again, it was still adding too much heat to the system and still short cycle. So the 3rd year I shut off all supplimental heat, including the deforst heat. That's when I noticed the compressor shutting off at or around 5F. It would stay off for around 8 minutes and then start, and off again within a minute or two. So I have to use emergency heat from around 5F and below. That is not right. There is still lots of heat to be absorbed at 5F on these systems. The contractor that installed the system can't fix it. He said "how much heat are you getting at 5F, anyways." Even he doesn't know what or how these Puron systems work.

Thorton
_____________________
To succeed, it is necessary to accept the world as it is and rise above it

 

Why do you wannabe HVAC posters insist that there is some sort of battle going on here. This site is here because of the professionals who are members here, not for the sake of disgruntled consumers to air their ill informed opinions of our industry.

I'm sure there are other sites just for whining consumers who feel they have been wronged, this is not it. This site is for professionals who are taking their own time to try to steer consumers in the right direction and educate consumers on HVAC particulars so those consumers can make better decisions.

When you come on here and make claims about HVAC personell doing wrong by you, you are attacking the very industry and people that this site is here to promote. You are peeing in our cornflakes and we don't have to put up with your attacks on our industry without setting you straight. Why in the world do you disgruntled HOs want to be shown how wrong you are about our industry? Go whine on a site where others will make you feel good and let us do some good with the HOs who just want to be able to make more informed decisions on HVAC purchases.

Geeez, its like Muslims preaching in a church.

 

Could It Be "Buyers Remorse"..........




Oh and

Nice response robin............

 

Hey Rob, ever feel like you're urinating up a rope?? And yes, I'm thinking Buyer's Remorse!

 

I love urinating up ropes

 

Simply

Don't shop price, don't shop equipment, shop Installing Contractor....

 

Now that's just freaky; where did you find that picture of me demonstrating how HVAC pokyman works?

 

Ah, yea. Experience is a wonderful thing. Live and learn. Mrs. D.

 

Boy, Robo. That woman over there really pissed me off. Good thing she didn't put her address down! What a piece of work. That was a very polite reply. Kudos. Mrs. D.

 

<nope. not necessary.>

 

you dont even have a problem knucklehead

no heat pump will funtion at 0 degrees . they shut down and kick in the secondary heatstrips or furnace . how stupid is the installer or how gullible are you . below 40 degrees heat pumps shut down and defrosta begin . period end of story.That is the way they are designed. the installer hasnt been talking to a carrier rep that i ever heard of cause he would have figured this out at once. probably calling his shop. sounds like you got the green peas working on it to me. aka newbee. try a carrier recommended service co.

 

no heat pump will funtion at 0 degrees . they shut down and kick in the secondary heatstrips or furnace . how stupid is the installer or how gullible are you . below 40 degrees heat pumps shut down and defrosta begin . period end of story.That is the way they are designed. the installer hasnt been talking to a carrier rep that i ever heard of cause he would have figured this out at once. probably calling his shop. sounds like you got the green peas working on it to me. aka newbee. try a carrier recommended service co.

You really need to take some classes from a quality HVAC instructor regarding heat pumps. You are wrong is so many ways.

 

If your heat pump is still working at 0 degrees F, you need to get down on your knees in front of that installer because he has done the impossible...He is GOD. After 5 years, with probably ZERO maintenance, you come here to bash this guy? Where were your baseless accusations after the first week/month/year? I agree with the other pro's that this had to be stemmed from the subject charachter in buyers remorse.

 

Most of the heat pumps we install, still provide more btu's of heat per KW consumed at 0, then electric resistance heat does.

Maybe your electric rate is high enough that it cost more.

 

I was going to let this one go but hell why not

Thorton
what do you mean by shuts down at 0 degrees
is it broken and wont come back on
or does it turn back on when the temp goes back up

you ***** about a tech and give no real info as to any problem if any
then you put down a very respected member on this forum with out any regard to his knowlege

is this your additude towards your installer and service tech also

5 years later you are worried about microns wtf sounds as if you just want some attention or like looking like an idiot

Robo dont let my remark go to your head either

 

Not to bust on you Thorton.

But its possible to have TXV trouble when everything is done text book on an install. So no one can say its because of what an installer did or didn't do 3 or 5 years ago.

 

I understand what your saying, beenthere! I realize TXV's can malfunction prematurely because of poor manufacturing techniques, too. It's just in another thread the guys were talking about moisture in systems and drawing down properly, and it got me thinking. You know as well as I do, most, but not all HVAC problems are the result of crappy installs. I'm sure lots of the guys on here do the job right, but like all professions there are some unscrupulous people. It's the same everywhere. Auto mechanics, Lawyers, Doctors, window installers etc. It amazes me when I read a lot of the posts in the residential section the trouble people have with there HVAC systems. It leads a person like me to start to form opinions about personnel that are doing this work. It paints a sort dark picture in my mind. However, I realize there are some great people in the trade also. It's just being able to find them is the hard part. You read some of the responses in this thread. There are a few guys that don't know some equipment very well. I wouldn't want them working on mine. Too many people think their legends, but only in their own minds. But you, beenthere and some others like Baldloonie, Dash, JR Benny, Smokin68, just to name a few, I would love it if you guys could work on my HVAC issues.

Thorton
_____________________
Don't confuse me with facts; my mind is already made up.

 

Pardon me,

But Mr Thornton: Are you a licensed HVAC professional? How many heat pump systems have you installed? Just curious, was kinda fishing to see from where you draw you knowledge and expertise....

There is lots of smoke out there in print. But the folks that have actually installed dozens of systems would know more about this IMO.

I can tell you this: If I had a library expert and a seasoned tech in front of me, you can bet your AmEx card I would listen to the tech first. The reason I say this is that I have seen countless folks that are full of 'book knowledge', but do not know how things REALLY WORK! That is why most states require 3-4-5 years of hands on to get a license. It proves that a desk jockey really KNOWS what they are doing.

O K, I am sure I just opened myself up to lots of flames; lets see how this thread plays out...

 

Mr. ga-hvac-tech, I'm not suggesting that you or most of the other chaps on this forum don't know a lot about HVAC. I only question when "my" equipment is not being serviced or installed properly. If you do a good job, I say bravo to you. That's the way it should be. At least you didn't say anything that contradicts yourself or you didn't take things out of context. I agree with some of your sentiments.

Thorton
_____________________
The currents that determine our dreams and shape our lives
Flow from the attitudes we nurture every day

 

How does Thorton have 637 posts? Does he have that many problems? Is he just lonely, He has some pets, he mentioned thme by name. Robo are you hurt because he didn't mention you. I wish he would have mentioned me. Poor Twilli gets no love.


What?

 

How does Thorton have 637 posts?

630 of them are in the Jokes/Humor forum.

 

LOL.

He's catching up to twil.

 

I wonder if these new folks that know ALL there is to know about HVAC are any kin to Geer over at ARP??? Sure is a similarity of behavior and attitude in my simplistic perception...

 

Another pointless thread at this point.

Read the rules in my sig line. If you don't have something constructive to post, don't post. The OP had a question. He didn't ask for step-by-step or DIY.

I don't know if the question has been answered with all the extra BS in this thread, which is now closed.