[jbaur]

Hello.

I have been limping along this pos split system for a couple of years now. It is 30 plus years old ac unit with electric heat. It didn't have any maintenance done on it for years. The building manager wouldn't spend any money on it. They called me in near the end of the summer for no ac and water leaking. Turned out the unit had lost most of its charge and froze the coil.

I told them it was beyond repair and needed to be replaced. I told them it was dangerous to operate the electric heat. I placed a lock out tag on the main breaker in the panel.

Yesterday I get a call from the tenant saying they contacted the maintenance and asked them to turn the heat on. He cut my lockout tag and closed the breaker. The tenant called me to say they shut off the thermostat because the unit started smoking.

What does a lockout tag actually mean? Is it just a heads up or are there legal ramifications for removing it?

 

[timtanguay]

In nd, Canada, it is actually illegal (to the best of my knowledge) to remove one. In the case above, I would have physically disconnected the power wires from the unit or atleast disabled the contactor for electric heat. That's just me though.

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[ckartson]

I think jbaur did the best that could have been done. Lockout tagout is for personnel safety while he is working on it and while it is under repair. It appears that it was under repair. If any of us run into a piece of equipment that is locked out we have to find the person that locked it out, have it unlocked, work on the equipmen and if not completed add our lock to the system. What good is a lockout tagout program if people cut off locks. You shouldn't have to disconnect wires to render equipment safe to work on that's what locking the disconnect is for. jbaur don't loose any sleep. You did the right thing. Those that cut off your lock need reprimanding and training.
PS. did you bill them for your lock?

 

[dsprice]

Its against the law to cut them. This is an OSHA law. Serious documentation is required when you cut one. Besides that, if you weren't hurt....

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. now Free

 

[pecmsg]

If they can’t get ahold of me then the Safety officer or Person in Charge can cut my lock, but there is a long paper trail including but not limited to emails, text message, voice mails.

 

[Johnny651]

They need to have personally talked to you beforehand, and documented it, its against the law otherwise. Here in MN people are supposed to be trained on LOTO annually, sounds like maintenance guy needs some training...with a hammer.

 

[timtanguay]

I think jbaur did the best that could have been done. Lockout tagout is for personnel safety while he is working on it and while it is under repair. It appears that it was under repair. If any of us run into a piece of equipment that is locked out we have to find the person that locked it out, have it unlocked, work on the equipmen and if not completed add our lock to the system. What good is a lockout tagout program if people cut off locks. You shouldn't have to disconnect wires to render equipment safe to work on that's what locking the disconnect is for. jbaur don't loose any sleep. You did the right thing. Those that cut off your lock need reprimanding and training.
PS. did you bill them for your lock?

Idiocy trancends the borders of what is good and right to do. You would think lockout tagout would be good enough to guarentee safety.

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[dlove]

In nd, Canada, it is actually illegal (to the best of my knowledge) to remove one. In the case above, I would have physically disconnected the power wires from the unit or atleast disabled the contactor for electric heat. That's just me though.

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in the long run it don't really matter who cut the lock, it could be anyone. Unless we plan to come back to the jobs site for repairs i will lock out/tagout. But if not, i will pull the wires on the board and the contactor. On my job sheet, List the problems of the unit, and what i did. With the words DO ONE OPERATE and get the property manager/ tenant or whoever is in charge and sign it....

if they blow them selves up it wont be because i didn't warn them.

 

[pnagel180]

If the unit was under contract for repairs/replacement, you need to have a "one on one" talk with the maintenance guy who just tried to barbecue you.
If you applied the lockout to warn others of the condition, it was just that, a warning.
I hope you get the change out.

Sent from my Thunderbolt

 

[pecmsg]

They need to have personally talked to you beforehand, and documented it, its against the law otherwise. Here in MN people are supposed to be trained on LOTO annually, sounds like maintenance guy needs some training...with a hammer.

They need to attempt to contact i may have just forgotten to remove my lock.
Remember in this situation they own the equipment. Now come the next day its my responsability to LOTO again while i work on it.

 

[crawdad55]

Sounds like their in-house maintenance staff isn't trained in LO/TO. When I do have to lock out a unit, I remove the fuses from the disconnect (if fused) and leave them in the unit. I also remove the control fuse. In some cases, I have even gone so far as to go to the BAC computer and disable the unit.
I wonder though, should there be some kind of legal document that a representative of the building or customer, be required to sign? Way more trouble than it should be, I realize, but is it needed? These days though, the term "maintenance man" can mean "janitor".

 

[energy star]

Are you an employee of the company where the piece of equipment is located. Or are you an outside contractor called in to service this piece of equipment?

 

[jmsmars1]

Here the customers use the lock hasp on disconnects to keep you from turning the power off. Then they cant find the key when you need to work on it.

 

[jbaur]

Follow Up:

The building is owned by a company that does a lot of business with us and I wasn't looking to get anyone in trouble. We made multiple attempts to contact the maintenance guy but he refused to answer calls or phone back. He has the attitude that his job is very important and he doesn't have time for interruptions.

I contacted the local Safety Authority in our area to ask what should be done and they advised me to contact the local Work Safe branch. I did and they were quite concerned. They told me the fines can be very stiff for companies deliberately disobeying safety measures put in place to protect employees. They really wanted me to give them the address of the building. I did not.

Our sales guy contacted the building owner to inform him of the possible ramifications if he did not deal with the situation quickly.

We replaced the unit last week.

 

[Timscoffeetech]

Wow... Cut your lockout off and turn it on, and it smokes... I don't even have words for that kinda stupidity! This maintenance guy should have better training or an attitude adjustment, maybe even both!


Adam

 

[timtanguay]

Here the customers use the lock hasp on disconnects to keep you from turning the power off. Then they cant find the key when you need to work on it.

Can you say billable coffee break?

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[Joe Harper]

There is one thing that experience has taught me...Stupidity knows no boundaries.
If you have equipment that needs to be disabled...pull the wires out. Maintenance men are notorious for messing with stuff when you leave. They will cut locks, turn on breakers, and try anything to restart the equipment. Want to have a little fun? Hang some thermostat wire out of a wall and leave. Come back a few days later and there will be a stat hanging there...