[copperteeth]

So today i went to my girlfriends house for the weekend and her sister saw a number for something to do with "Now hiring new apprentices! No experience needed! Electricians! HVAC! Refrigeration! Bla bla bla!" anyways....

Before i continue the story i have to mention im taking a full 2 year HVAC/R course that gets me my ODP, G3 and G2 (possibly more certifications, not sure yet) im very happy with it thus far and im enrolled to finish my final year in September.... back to the story...

So i got the number and called and turned out to be some private school run by the youth apprenticeship standards council that teaches refrigeration amongst other trade pre apprenticeship courses over the length of 12 weeks from 8am - 4pm Monday to Friday and gets you set up with a G3 Gas Tech license (which i already have) and god knows what kind of "real world experience" in refrigeration. They operate in Cambridge and Toronto i guess.

Now i told the woman on the phone im taking a course already and im very happy with it considering its costing me much less, $5400, with more course material, vs $10000 and i get my g2 as well as cover heating, sheet metal and electrical additional to refrigeration, why is this one any different? so she says "well 90% of our students who achieve 75% or better are employed in the field within 6 months, we don't offer the G2 because employers don't want to hire someone who has no real world experience with a g2" That whole statement made me roll my eyes. Sounded like a commercial to me. Who writes these statistics anyways???

Anyways, i have a few questions on my mind that i just cant really answer between me and my friend, whos a 3rd year plumbing apprentice.

Has anyone ever heard of these guys? The Youth apprenticeship standards council.

What she said to me about the G2 vs G3 didn't really make sense to me. Yea, your not going to throw a newbie into the field by himself and expect him to be able to do the work with a g2, but having that license should be more useful to employers than a g3, right? I guess what im asking is does it even make a difference what license you have starting out as a new apprentice?

Those facts she said to me have to be old or skewed or something, theirs no way that 90% of the people that take that course are refrigeration apprentices in 6 months. Whats hiring even like right now for new guys in hvac?

Whats new hiring like for strictly refrigeration?

I strongly feel like the course i took was the right choice, especially for what its costing me. The curious guy i am thought, i have to ask: Is the program they offer any good? $10,000 is an awful lot to not even offer osap funding especially for someone who needs financial assistance like me.

if anyone has any thoughts please share.

 

[73Stingray]

Hey Copper, hows things out in Essex....I am an old Essex boy myself....
I think that the G3 is pretty much useless, as there are a ton of G2 that are not working right now.

 

[blitz]

well, I just got hired through a connection. hvac is an alright gig. you got to drove a round, see girls walk by in the summer, got roasted on a roof somewhere, looking cool hauling a pair of 3 footer wrench , got stressed out on a call, frozen in the dead of winter outside trying to put some gas line together, etc

1. you need a min of G3 and some real construction/trade/helper/shop (other than school) type thing for some ppl to even willing to consider you as a helper. and happy go lucky attitude that keep u cheerful even when the job sucks. and we'll haul stuff for the lead hand plus our own often.

2. g2 mean squat without experience. lots g2 ticket holder is not working as hvac mech. I got lucky, happen to ask the right guy at the right time. lots of private trade school that just teach you how to write tssa exam without real technical knowledge.

3. no one got hired as apprentice right away from the street/zero experience in that field. it is possible, if you're like the son of the journeyman/owner/ bf of the daughter/son in law/ etc. but 10k for private trade school is awful lot of money. that 75% marks is mean u pass tssa exam.

well, that's my thought anyway.

 

[copperteeth]

Hey Copper, hows things out in Essex....I am an old Essex boy myself....
I think that the G3 is pretty much useless, as there are a ton of G2 that are not working right now.

Essex is same as always i guess lol. The car wash burned down and that's as far as news goes for our little town.... oh, and we got a mc donalds, burger king closed down. Yea... our little town is thriving haha


I ended up going to the information session, but i had already made up my mind before i walked in. I rather like the program im attending and when i saw the shop they had set up for the program they offered i almost started laughing. they had one furnace set up for the whole program of something like 15 - 20 students. The course im taking had one for every student.

they wanted to charge i guess $1100 bucks for Refrigeration and G3 training but since i already had my G3 they were only going to charge me a deal of $9800.... for hand tools, gas code books, safety gear like hardhats and steel toes (who doesn't own a pair in this day and age anyways??) and some text books, all of which i already had and there was no way to avoid paying those costs. it was non negotiable.

Im sure its probably a fine program, but having already spent a year going to school, i was not impressed with the way they wanted to charge me so much for only half of the course load. i was told i wold be essentially losing 240 hours of course material for the difference of $1400. so your telling me that if the learning part is costing me $2800, than all the extras are costing $8200?... no thank you

 

[RayD8630]

Necro post alert.

I posted in general but am having a similar problem. I finished pre-trade in NB and want to move to Ontario as there is zilch out here unless you're bilingual. I spent my teen years in TO/GTA. Is there any area looking good right now? My problem is I don't have any gas training as it was just a one year refrigeration course. I've got my block and passed the course with flying colours. Any help?

 

[dalec]

was wondering if you guys could shed some light on what the levels
of the 'g' rating are?

here in b.c. we have the 'a' license which is an unlimited gas license, then
there is the 'b' license which now is only available to the mechanical trades
ie plumbing, pipefitting and refrigeration, have to have the tq to get the
license and next is the 'c' license which is for applicance repair.
a 'c' license holder cannot do piping or venting

sheet metal guys used to be able to get the 'b' license but that privlege
was revoked a few years back.

an apprentice can take and sit the exam for the 'b' license in the last year
of school but it won't be issued until he recieves the 'tq', i think nowadays everyone is calling it the red seal

 

[copperteeth]

i could explain it but it would be a lot easier to quote the Ontario Regulations 215

G.1 certificate
20. (1) A person who is the holder of a G.1 certificate may install, inspect, alter, purge, activate, repair, service or remove a natural gas or propane appliance of any BTU input and the equipment and accessories essential to its operation. O. Reg. 215/01, s. 20 (1).
(2) A person who is certified to carry out the functions described in subsection (1), may also do the following:
1. Install, inspect, test, alter, purge, activate, repair, service or remove any piping or tubing, or component in a piping or tubing system, to an appliance downstream of the natural gas meter or propane vapour service valve.
2. Install, inspect, alter, repair, service or remove any vent, vent connector, draft control device or other component in an appliance venting system.
3. Disconnect and reconnect water piping in order to exchange, service or install an approved appliance and carry out the replacement of water pipe necessary to complete the reconnection or installation of controls, control systems, components and accessories that are essential to the operation of the appliance, but the person shall not perform any additional plumbing unless he or she is also the holder of a valid certificate of qualification as a plumber or steamfitter issued under the Trades Qualification and Apprenticeship Act.
4. Maintain, service or replace a mechanical or electrical component or accessory that forms part of an appliance or that is essential to the operation of the appliance.
5. Perform such tasks as are necessary to replace controls and components that form part of an appliance.
6. Install, service, remove or replace components and accessories that form part of the gas-side of a refrigerating or air-conditioning unit, but the person shall not perform any work beyond the gas-side unless he or she is the holder of a certificate of qualification as a refrigeration and air-conditioning mechanic issued under the Trades Qualification and Apprenticeship Act.
7. Install, repair, service and maintain electrical wiring from an existing branch circuit containing overcurrent protection to appliances in order to exchange, service, repair or install an approved appliance and carry out the replacement of electrical wiring necessary to complete the reconnection or installation of controls, control systems, components and accessories that are essential to the operation of the appliance, but the person shall not run wiring back to the electrical supply panel or perform any additional wiring unless he or she is also the holder of a valid certificate of qualification as an electrician issued under the Trades Qualification and Apprenticeship Act.
8. Install, repair, service, remove or replace the plenum connection or components forming part of the plenum connection in order to complete the installation of a natural gas or propane appliance, but the person shall not perform any sheet metal work beyond the plenum connection unless he or she is the holder of a certificate of qualification as a sheet metal worker issued under the Trades Qualification and Apprenticeship Act.
9. Service a flue where an oil appliance is vented through the same flue as a gas appliance.
10. Remove a fuel oil appliance, and the equipment and accessories, but not the aboveground storage tanks associated with the fuel oil appliance during a conversion of the fuel oil appliance from fuel oil to natural gas or propane gas. O. Reg. 215/01, s. 20 (2).
G.2 certificate
21. (1) A person who is the holder of a G.2 certificate may install, inspect, alter, purge, activate, repair, service or remove a natural gas or propane appliance that has an input of 400,000 Btuh or less and the equipment and accessories essential to its operation. O. Reg. 215/01, s. 21 (1).
(2) When performing a function described in subsection (1), the person may do the following:
1. Perform the functions described in paragraphs 1 to 10 of subsection 20 (2) that the holder of a G.1 certificate may perform.
2. Under the direct supervision of a person who is the holder of a G.1 certificate, perform all of the functions that fall within the scope of the supervising certificate holder’s certificate. O. Reg. 215/01, s. 21 (2).
G.3 certificate
22. (1) A person who is the holder of a G.3 certificate may, under the general supervision of a person who is the holder of a G.1, G.2 or DA certificate, carry out the following functions on a propane or natural gas appliance that falls within the scope of the supervising certificate holder’s certificate, but only if the person has demonstrated the essential skills required to perform such work and has had that experience documented and signed-off by the supervising certificate holder in a form as set out and published by the director:
1. Install, test, activate or purge gas piping or tubing that is less than two and one-half inches in diameter or a component in a piping or tubing system to an appliance downstream of a natural gas meter or propane service valve up to an appliance control valve including the completion of the pressure test tag.
2. Reactivate a previously installed or converted appliance.
3. Clean and lubricate an appliance.
4. Clean, remove or replace a vent connector, venting or a draft control device. O. Reg. 215/01, s. 22 (1); O. Reg. 253/08, s. 14 (1).
(2) A person referred to in subsection (1) shall not perform the initial activation of a new appliance or a newly converted appliance. O. Reg. 215/01, s. 22 (2).
(3) REVOKED: O. Reg. 253/08, s. 14 (2).
(4) A person who is the holder of a G.3 certificate may, under the direct supervision of a person who is the holder of a G.1, G.2 or DA certificate, carry out any of the functions that fall within the scope of the supervising certificate holder’s certificate. O. Reg. 215/01, s. 22 (4).

 

[wolfstrike]

they want you to sign up and pay them money, and when you graduate they're will be a slim chance you will be hired.

 

[wundumguy]

... the 'b' license which now is only available to the mechanical trades
ie plumbing, pipefitting and refrigeration, have to have the tq to get the
license...

Class A -
- any gas system except vehicle
- Three phase power integral to equipment

Eligibility for Class A -
- Pass Class A exam, and
- Have held Class B for minimum of 2 years.

Class B -

For certificate issued and apprentices registered before April 2009.
- unlimited atmospheric
- power burner up to 220kW (750MBH)
- Three phase power integral to equipment (revoked as of April 2009).
-- Review of course content indicated inadequate training in three phase power.

For apprentices registered after April 2009
- atmospheric and power burner up to 120kW (400MBH)
-- To reconcile BC with other provinces.

Eligibility for Class B -
- Pass Class B exam; AND,

- Hold a TQ in plumbing, steamfitting, refrigeration, or sprinkler fitting, or
- Be a trainee in a gas fitting program recognized by the provincial safety manager, or *
- Have held a gas utility certificate of qualification for at least 2 years, or **
- Have equivalent experience and training acceptable to the provincial safety manager.***

* Gas fitting is currently (1) a certification within a red seal pipe trade, (2) a certification with the BC Certified Heating Technician trade, and (3) an independent or stand alone apprenticeship program. A large percentage of Gas B apprentices are fire place and/or furnace installers and techs. Gas B apprenticeship courses are currently offered at BCIT and PVC.

** Terasen Gas (gas utility) workers may become eligible to write the B certification. Why someone without any meaningful building construction or appliance service experience can receive the B certification beats me. A number of Terasen Gas workers received their B certification to help expedite the Whistler/Squamish propane to natural gas conversion.

*** Workers who are not registered apprentices and do not have a TQ, but have acquired acceptable gas fitting experience can be approved by BCSA to register in a Gas B certifying exam preparation course (currently offered at BCIT in night school and distance education formats).

Appliance Service -
- appliances installed for residential use
- light commercial appliances up to 82kW (280MBH)

Eligibility for Appliance Service -
- Successfully complete a course in gas appliance service acceptable to the provincial safety manager.

 

[copperteeth]

Class A -
- any gas system except vehicle
- Three phase power integral to equipment.........

....service acceptable to the provincial safety manager.

wow, BC certification makes much more sense to me in regards to the qualifications and the restrictions. the Ontario regulations are a joke....

 

[RayD8630]

Just a question.

With regards to Ontario regulations, I see pretty much every employer wants a G3. Natural gas training is a separate course from refrigeration out here. Does anyone know of a place in Ontario that basically offers a course or a program that can get you a G3 that isn't a full time HVAC/R program?

 

[blitz]

Just a question.

With regards to Ontario regulations, I see pretty much every employer wants a G3. Natural gas training is a separate course from refrigeration out here. Does anyone know of a place in Ontario that basically offers a course or a program that can get you a G3 that isn't a full time HVAC/R program?

for G3: conestoga college in waterloo, jenal trades and training center (jenal heating) in kingston, hi-mark, hydrocarbon, etc etc. my reccomendation is go to conestoga or jenal heating if you're around where they're located

 

[RayD8630]

Awesome. See, my problem is that I have the refrigeration side of the trade. Just not the gas.

As I said before, the course I did is a one year refrigeration course. Out here they're thinking of adding a 5th block to the Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Red Seal to make natural gas apart of it. But that won't do me any good when I cannot get work out here even doing refrigeration. I was thinking of moving back to Durham where I have some family and taking the G3 night or night/saturday course so that I can at least get my foot in the door somewhere. But if what I read is correct most of my competition (coming out of trade school) will hold refrigeration plus G2? Are all these guys that aren't working G2 holders and that's it (as in no refrigeration)?

 

[blitz]

Awesome. See, my problem is that I have the refrigeration side of the trade. Just not the gas.

As I said before, the course I did is a one year refrigeration course. Out here they're thinking of adding a 5th block to the Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Red Seal to make natural gas apart of it. But that won't do me any good when I cannot get work out here even doing refrigeration. I was thinking of moving back to Durham where I have some family and taking the G3 night or night/saturday course so that I can at least get my foot in the door somewhere. But if what I read is correct most of my competition (coming out of trade school) will hold refrigeration plus G2? Are all these guys that aren't working G2 holders and that's it (as in no refrigeration)?

your competition out of school will hold G2 and maybe a bunch of design certification from HRAI if they took full two years HVAC program. the refrigeration portion, you have to have your hour and pass exams like any other apprenticeship. not sure how they calculate schooling toward the hours.

as long as you can use your meter and diagnose (or guessing ) what's wrong u'll be fine. you got 80% of your worth and knowledge from working on the field and seeing eqp. every one does. resi install is not complicated, but easy to butcher also.

but supposedly there's work. that's what I kept hearing anyway. and lots of new G2 holder that the system pump out. I only have gas. I'd like to get into refrigeration. not resi, but would rather get into industrial/commercial. that's where the money is anyway -> so I've been told...

 

[Clinker]

I just got my G2 and live in Sarnia, Ontario (near London), I have experience as an operator in a manufacturing field (+10). Any adivce?

 

[Peztoy]

Hey Ray, don't sweat the small stuff. You've got relatives in Durham that you can stay with and will support you, do it. There is no gaurantee you'll find work as soon as you get here, but the odds are you'll find work here before you find it there. I took the same course you took. If the curriculum is the same as when I was there you've received training that exceeds anything I've seen in these parts. How many schools can offer a real world supermarket setting to its students including piping and wiring the equipment? Whether you stay with refrigeration or move to a/c your training will serve you well.

If the big city doesn't agree with you you can always go back. Many people don't like it.



BTW I thought you had gas in the southern part of NB and NS so training should be available.

 

[chupacabra_]

So even a G2 isn't enough to apprentice in refrigeration???? So what the hell does it take, perhaps a kidney?? With all the old guys set to retire companies are gonna be in for a world of hurt if they aren't gonna take the time to train new apprentices.. what goes around comes around.

Regardless I'm gonna follow through and take the g3 part-time course that starts in september(through TSSA accredited institution) and G2 after I finish this 1yr electrical program.. hopefully by the time I'm done the economy will be in better shape.

 

[blitz]

So even a G2 isn't enough to apprentice in refrigeration???? So what the hell does it take, perhaps a kidney?? With all the old guys set to retire companies are gonna be in for a world of hurt if they aren't gonna take the time to train new apprentices.. what goes around comes around.

Regardless I'm gonna follow through and take the g3 part-time course that starts in september(through TSSA accredited institution) and G2 after I finish this 1yr electrical program.. hopefully by the time I'm done the economy will be in better shape.

G2 has nothing to do w/ refrigeration. It's for natural/LP gas only. you can have nothing, and if someone wants to take you on in refrigeration apprenticeship it's possible. the problem is both goes hand in hand.

 

[Clinker]

I was looking at information about Sheet Metal Workers International Assoc. - in Exeter and London, Ontario. Does anybody know anybody- there I could talk to.

 

[RayD8630]

Hey Ray, don't sweat the small stuff. You've got relatives in Durham that you can stay with and will support you, do it. There is no gaurantee you'll find work as soon as you get here, but the odds are you'll find work here before you find it there. I took the same course you took. If the curriculum is the same as when I was there you've received training that exceeds anything I've seen in these parts. How many schools can offer a real world supermarket setting to its students including piping and wiring the equipment? Whether you stay with refrigeration or move to a/c your training will serve you well.

If the big city doesn't agree with you you can always go back. Many people don't like it.



BTW I thought you had gas in the southern part of NB and NS so training should be available.

That's good to know. I've got on at a residential company out here which will be great for a while. Someday I'd like to give rack a crack. All we pretty much did in school was rack (our MT/LT boxes with Keeprite evaps. piped up to a Copeland condensing unit). I applied at a few HVAC companies in Ontario over the web and only heard back from one asking for some more references...and never heard from them again. The big thing with the HVAC companies in Ontario is that they want guys with some sort of gas ticket. In the south (read English side of the Province lol) refrigeration is a separate one year course from the gas course. Both are full time, full tuition programs. They've been talking about making gas a 5th block on the Refrigeration Mechanic Red Seal but they're always talking. Heck the rumour mill even said at one point that they would let us work like they do in Ontario and let us go from the disconnect right into the breaker. Right now about all we can do is flip the breaker and check for power at the breaker and disconnect. Pretty sad considering on most installs we supply the whips and disconnects for the equipment. The guys in North (read French guys so CCNB not NBCC) have a two year HVAC program that gives them everything. Block one in refrigeration plus a G2 license. Keep in mind though that in NB we do not have a G3, just a G2 and G1.

Chuapcabra a gas ticket isn't enough. That let's you work on gas but not refrigeration. Like Blitz said they go hand in hand. Take my problem, for example. I took a course that teaches you from what heat is all the way to how to troubleshoot electrical and how to pipe and wire a MT and LT walk in cooler, but because I do not have any sort of gas training, no HVAC company in Ontario wants me.

Fortunately gas is an up and coming thing in NB right now. A lot of the newer subdivisions on the outside of town are getting it. Still a lot of houses out in the sticks that rely on oil or wood. Heck a lot of places here still have baseboard heaters. I remember before I even went to school the gas course here was a private one run by Enbridge. Tuition was about 6 times more than the refrigeration course, and the instructor even said it's really only meant to get guys working in HVAC right now they're gas license, because he spends so little time on troubleshooting and electrical. Now, it's a one year course that costs the same as my refrigeration course.