There’s plenty of R-407C condensers available

 

What other brands of 407C condensers are available?

The only one I can find is a Coleman labeled one.

 

Did Harvey’s
United
ABCO
all carry there own brands

 

Is this something your trying to buy yourself, or are you a contractor?

 

Not a contractor and not doing the work either.

Need to replace aging systems from several properties that I manage.

The contractor that I have been using for many years has said there are no alternatives, and calls to many other contractors have said the same. I am doing a detailed search on this issue and it lead me to this site.

Need at least 14 seer, would prefer 16 seer, single stage units as replacements, but I have not seen any with a 16 seer rating.

 

If your worried about SEER then all New equipment

 

Seer ratings aren’t for the outdoor unit, they are for matched equipment. You’ll notice that seer ratings are phrased as “up to xx seer”. That’s because exact seer depends on the AHRI match.
Pairing an R-407C outdoor unit with an old indoor coil will not result in a match number, and seer will be unknown.
You’ll get nowhere near 16 Seer unless your installing new, matched equipment.

 

Not a contractor and not doing the work either.

Need to replace aging systems from several properties that I manage.

The contractor that I have been using for many years has said there are no alternatives, and calls to many other contractors have said the same. I am doing a detailed search on this issue and it lead me to this site.

Need at least 14 seer, would prefer 16 seer, single stage units as replacements, but I have not seen any with a 16 seer rating.

 

Yes, Thank you, I am aware that the equipment needs to be matched to achieve the seer ratings stated. The new system equipment I have called out for is a 16 seer-single stage condenser.

I need to have the answers to my questions regarding R421A and R407C, and the reliability of those condensers to make the final decision as to which direction to go.

1- Are they reliable?
2- will replacement parts be around 5 to 8 years to service them?
3-Who would provide the warranty on them? Are they all made by the same Manufacture? Like Daikin?

 

WRONG
THE NEW CONDENSING UNIT WHEN MATCHED TO THE PROPER INDOOR UNIT MAY BE 16 SEER,

 

The installing contractor that provided the equipment handles the warranty.

 

United Refrigeration has 407C units made by Rheem. But as was said, what about the indoor coil? I know landlords are only after cheap but take a bare bones 410 unit and put it on a new coil and you'll have much greater reliability.

We service a hotel that had their failed condensers replaced with "dry" R22 units on the 1985 coil. They don't last and who knows if they were evacuated and charged right. We are now replacing with low end ICP outdoor unit and matched condenser. Many of the units we have replaced so far have been barely 5 years old. 13 SEER condensers don't like little low SEER coils.

 

Choice Refrigerants Unveils New Sustainable R-421A Choice Refrigerant Equipment

4 June 2018

Choice Refrigerants also known as RMS of Georgia, recently unveiled its new line of Choice® air-conditioning condensers. Manufactured by Johnson Controls, the new Choice cooling units come in 1½ to 5-ton residential condensing units. It’s the alternative choice to R-410A systems.

Shipped with a dry nitrogen charge, the Choice condensing units are set up to take the sustainable and patented Choice R-421A refrigerant developed and manufactured by Choice Refrigerants to replace the outdated R-22 refrigerant.

Says it has a micro channel coil, scroll compressor and built in filter drier.

 

Didn't know dry charge could be made anymore!

 

Which is why I originally posted here about the R421A option.

If anyone has feed back on the Choice Refrigerant condenser, I would appreciate hearing about them.

 

Are these Heat Pumps?

 

@BaldLoonie,
You said,
"but take a bare bones 410 unit and put it on a new coil and you'll have much greater reliability."

This is the kind of feedback I really appreciate.

Option 1- Choice Refreigeration R421A condenser,
or Option 2- a generic R407C condenser,
or option 3- as you say, put a 410 condenser and evap coil for more reliability than option 1 or 2? Could you clarify if I am wrong on interpreting on what you said?

If the option 3 route was taken, is it typically more work for the installer to make the bigger 410 coil fit the furnace? or is it less work to install it on a new furnace.
The existing furnaces are 15 years old, I would think they should have another 10 to 15 years in them.

On a side note, the exterior of the Choice Refrigeration condensers look exactly like the Guardian units. I am wondering what components are different on the inside, if any. They have the same 5 year warranty.

 

Guardian web site says 10 year parts and compressor warranty once registered. Unlike the Choice brand, Guardian offers indoor units, furnaces, Heat Pumps, AHRI matched systems. At face value the Choise only comes in A/C condensor mode, no Heat Pump models or indoor unit, no furnaces. Probably why they only offer a basic 5 year warranty as it's going to be installed on unmatched system and using non R410A refrigerant.

Guardian is also produced by Johnson Control, along with several other brands.

As an example of the 10/10 warranty:

http://www.guardianhomecomfort.com/equipment/air-conditioners.aspx

 

The Guardians I have worked on also had microchannel coils.

 

Im still waiting to hear if these are Heat Pumps? That plays a huge part in what can and cant be done!

 

I can only say that the Guardians I worked on was a 120 house project. All but 4 were heatpumps(Tempstar) and only 4 Guardians with straight air and heat strips, so my guess would be that they are not heatpumps?

 

A/Cs and especially heat pumps should be installed as a system. They ARE a system with the indoor coil engineered to work best with the outdoor unit. For longest compressor life, full capacity and full possible efficiency, a matched system is the way to go. Using an old coil with a 421 or 407C outdoor unit may work at reduced capacity, usually to get good refrigerant flow, they have to be overcharged which shortens compressor life and costs more to run. Heat pumps may flat out not work right switching back & forth between heat & cool with a mismatched coil.

I mentioned the hotel we service that the mismatched R22 units weren't holding up. We also have a 17 unit office building from the 80s. The owner had us buy up some remaining 13 SEER R22 units to put on his 30 year old coils. Most are gone already, didn't last. The old 10 SEER units still are working because they weren't such a mismatch. Now we found a way to remove the coil 1/2 of his indoor units and slap a new one that matches the A/C. Now they will hold up.

 

You are right but around here they buy properties, keep them less than 5 yrs then sell and buy another, so they don’t care so much about lasting past that time.

 

Thank you BaldLoonie,

Replacing both condenser and evap coil at the same time makes sense to me.
You confirmed my feelings toward doing it this way.

These properties have been held for 15 years, and probably will for another 15 years.
Reliability of the system is the number one priority for me.

Dare I ask one last question?
I know it is up to the installer to install the unit properly to begin with, but are there units today that are more reliable than others? York? Bryant? ???

Single stage 16 SEER a/c condenser and matched coil on a gas furnace.

Thank you every one for your comments, really appreciate it.

 

Key is the best installer really.

Not much point in 16 SEER on a standard furnace. It won't get it without a high efficiency blower motor which most furnaces don't have. If they are made after 7/3/19 they will