I put R22 in a 407c condensing unit. It was to replace some loss, and wasn't a large percentage, but maybe 10%. It ran for nearly 24 hours before I discovered the mistake. It cooled well enough. There was no excessive current draw. There was high head pressure. I would like to replace the refrigerant and have everything be just fine. What are my chances?
I mixed refrigerants. R22 and 407C. And ran the system for a day.
mustanger361
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I put R22 in a 407c condensing unit. It was to replace some loss, and wasn't a large percentage, but maybe 10%. It ran for nearly 24 hours before I discovered the mistake. It cooled well enough. There was no excessive current draw. There was high head pressure. I would like to replace the refrigerant and have everything be just fine. What are my chances?
Do you have a PT chart for those new refrigerants that are being created?
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F O O L S
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CH2F2 R32 (23%)
CF3CHF2 R125 (25%)
CF3CH2F R134a (52%)
Explain how " lot of techs and companies I know of mix those 2 freon all the time" do this legally or know how to analyze operation?
Avogadro’s law, a statement that under the same conditions of temperature and pressure, equal volumes of different gases contain an equal number of molecules. This empirical relation can be derived from the kinetic theory of gases under the assumption of a perfect (ideal) gas. The law is approximately valid for real gases at sufficiently low pressures and high temperatures.
Charles’s law, a statement that the volume occupied by a fixed amount of gas is directly proportional to its absolute temperature, if the pressure remains constant. This empirical relation was first suggested by the French physicist J.-A.-C. Charles about 1787 and was later placed on a sound empirical footing by the chemist Joseph-Louis Gay-Lussac. It is a special case of the general gas law and can be derived from the kinetic theory of gases under the assumption of a perfect (ideal) gas. Measurements show that at constant pressure the thermal expansion of real gases, at sufficiently low pressure and high temperature, conforms closely to Charles’s law. See also perfect gas.
The Combined Gas Law combines the effects of Boyle's Law and Charles Law thus considering gas pressure, gas volume, and gas temperature all together. The Combined Gas Law is written as
P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2
where
P = Pressure of the gas
V = Volume occupied by the gas
T = Temperature of the gas
I'm sure they are calculating this out when they blend the "freon".
CF3CHF2 R125 (25%)
CF3CH2F R134a (52%)
Explain how " lot of techs and companies I know of mix those 2 freon all the time" do this legally or know how to analyze operation?
Avogadro’s law, a statement that under the same conditions of temperature and pressure, equal volumes of different gases contain an equal number of molecules. This empirical relation can be derived from the kinetic theory of gases under the assumption of a perfect (ideal) gas. The law is approximately valid for real gases at sufficiently low pressures and high temperatures.
Charles’s law, a statement that the volume occupied by a fixed amount of gas is directly proportional to its absolute temperature, if the pressure remains constant. This empirical relation was first suggested by the French physicist J.-A.-C. Charles about 1787 and was later placed on a sound empirical footing by the chemist Joseph-Louis Gay-Lussac. It is a special case of the general gas law and can be derived from the kinetic theory of gases under the assumption of a perfect (ideal) gas. Measurements show that at constant pressure the thermal expansion of real gases, at sufficiently low pressure and high temperature, conforms closely to Charles’s law. See also perfect gas.
The Combined Gas Law combines the effects of Boyle's Law and Charles Law thus considering gas pressure, gas volume, and gas temperature all together. The Combined Gas Law is written as
P1V1/T1 = P2V2/T2
where
P = Pressure of the gas
V = Volume occupied by the gas
T = Temperature of the gas
I'm sure they are calculating this out when they blend the "freon".
He did say it was an accident and is going to correct his mistake. Cut the guy some slack. Same with the fella who knows of people who do it on the regular, I’m sure quite a few of us know people that do that. I know of several hacks that do it. It’s wrong and shouldn’t be done and I’d bet that 99% of us on this forum know that.
I applaud ya for owning your mistake bud and stepping up to correct instead of the ole attitude of aw it seems to be running alright so I’ll just let it slide and keep moving.
No one was busting the OP's balls....just Ramboskie's balls for his comment
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Back when 407 first got real common, a guy I know recharged pretty much all leakers with 407 on 22. He said it works fine and didn’t see much difference other than head running a tad higher. Well the start of the next years summer he had compressors dropping left and right. So instead of admitting defeat and that he was wrong, he just doubled down and blamed it on the 407 being a crap refrigerant since the worked fine (other than leaking) before the 407. So he switched to I think it’s 427a maybe. Can’t do anything but shake your head about some people.
Wonder how many people have mixed refrigerants and not known it... I would say there are quite a few folks who will dump and run... and those who might do a major repair..use a drop in and not bother to mark the equipment.
I’ve come up on units before.. no markings anywhere till you see where someone has noted the refrigerant with a sharpie... that is barely visible.
I’ve come up on units before.. no markings anywhere till you see where someone has noted the refrigerant with a sharpie... that is barely visible.
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One time early on in my apprenticeship I was sent to top off a slow leaker that my boss had been nursing along for a few years and I checked the nameplate of the unit beside the one I was working on and grabbed the refrigerant it required and went back and started charging the one that was low with r22 and after a couple pounds and the superheat and subcooling were still way off i realized that it was a r410a unit. After recovering all the refrigerant and recharging it I have not made that mistake since.
It was the strangest thing the r22 seemed to have no effect on the pressures.
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134a left in the sun looks a lot like r22 on a long day
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A LOT!!! It happens, or has happened likely to us all, as R600a said, once. All the time,companies,as a standard procedure, no disrespect intended my brother but unless someone can change my mind I'm throwin the bullshit flag on that.
In Philly it seems to be common to top of R-22 with whatever R-422b or R-407c. As one fellow told me; R-22 is a bunch of chemicals with a boiler point at 70 degrees, R-407c is a bunch of chemicals with a similar boiler point, as is R-422b. I don't agree but I know long term (this has been going on for a long while) it doesn't seem to effect the unit. I've never had a customer with mixed refrigerants notice a increase in electric costs. Then again in Philly the cooling season is short and humidity is moderate.
We still install R-22 because there's lots of it for sale on the street from those who speculated thinking the price would mimic R-12. $250-$300 a cylinder why not carry one on the van?
We still install R-22 because there's lots of it for sale on the street from those who speculated thinking the price would mimic R-12. $250-$300 a cylinder why not carry one on the van?
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I'll admit to "screwing up" by winding up w/ mixed freons in a system. I made the choice of leaving the mix in the system and monitoring the system. I noticed some SH/SC differences and little else. I monitored that and a "few" other mistakes for years and years. The customer didn't complain about anything and the equipment didn't complain about anything and neither did I. Then again I did pull a r22/r410a mix up. OK, so I'm a bum sometimes.
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No Terry you're human, just provin it that's all. Mine came many years ago puttin r22 in an r500 package unit. Dump the charge,and refill. lost alot of mass/volume off my backside in a "conversation" with the boss afterward.
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Those are the times I told the Boss YOU screwed up.....................You trusted me!
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