[viper1]

Working on an office space inside an insulated and climate controlled building. Just one story. Owner wants to consider installing the condenser indoors, above the office area. because the building is already climate controlled, the actual loads are minimal. Another reason for this is the use of a heat pump, in which there are large motor loads in the building so a lot more heat to use inside the building, and temps do occasionally drop below 0F.

So far, total loads in cooling would be around 1.0-1.5T, with heat sources such as computers being more of a factor than the envelope. If a condenser were installed indoors, I'm sure noise will be a consideration.

i realize some might frown at the idea, but in all fairness, a compressor of this size would be about 2HP or less, in which there will be around 100HP min of motors running in the building.

If this is reasonable, is there such a thing as a high seer small package unit that is ducted? I had a ducted mini spit in my head.

 

[pecmsg]

Probably won’t pass code.
Outdoor use only

 

[viper1]

Probably won’t pass code.
Outdoor use only

Agree, I was going to look into that. Can't say I have ever done it, but I've seen several in the wild. Most are window units. Come to think of it, I did that to my own office a long time ago...lol

 

[pecmsg]

Agree, I was going to look into that. Can't say I have ever done it, but I've seen several in the wild. Most are window units. Come to think of it, I did that to my own office a long time ago...lol

A window shaker won’t have that listing. A condensing unit yes.

 

[ESokoloff]

“ Have you never seen a condenser setup inside a building?”

Yep, several in a midrise building(s) on Wilshire Blvd in Los Angeles so it’s a thing (legal there & at that time)
Ducted supply & return so not effecting the building.
It was a long time ago so details are fuzzy.

 

[Sumerduck]

The closest I've ever seen is

parking garages;

and a condo building that cut construction costs by using a Goodman condenser with a big 90 degree elbow on top in place of a FirstCo/ncp condenser; in a balcony closet. The whole building seems to have been done this way. It was awful.

 

[VTP99]

Why would anyone do this?
I once saw a RTU in an attic.
ABSURD !

 

[BBeerme]

I've seen an RTU or even split insides of buildings a few times. Always a warehouse style structure with [smaller] offices inside.

 

[ESokoloff]

Why would anyone do this?
I once saw a RTU in an attic.
ABSURD !

Small server/computer room application of tenants of the building.

 

[BBeerme]

Seen that a few times as well; forgot about those.

Small server/computer room application of tenants of the building.

 

[VTP99]

Okay, small horsepower makes sense. We have those in refrigeration all the time indoors.

 

[Unlimited1]

Attics will be rather hot in the summer …I have experienced 142 degrees for no more than 15 minutes and that’s including cold water wet ragging your head and neck…

 

[Sooty]

Yes. A warehouse for a metal supplier the condensers were located on brackets above the warehouse floor to cool the offices. As always the people sitting at their desks need their air conditioning while the guys on the floor doing the real work had to sweat it out.

 

[hvacvegas]

Multiple times, over and over.
No, it almost never works

Few examples:
3435 golden ave 45226
10 story condo. Units are located in mechanical rooms that are ventilated. When they get dirty, they cant be cleaned, because the water that leaks through the grates stains the building. Also gets hotter than ambient in the mechanical rooms.

Same building, they put side discharge units under a window inside a casement between 2 elevators. Those eat compressors, cant get the heat out.



3500 michigan ave 45208

12 condensers in a room on the first floor of the building. If you look around you can see the inlets and outlets.
Has an active 24/7 fan system to ventilate the heat out of the room.
Some condensers get more or less ambient air, some units see 15* over ambient while others see 7.
All 12 units are about 10 years old, all 12 units have had condenser fan motors replaced, and that room in the basement is covered in mold.


One i cant give you an address for, the units arent even inside. They are outside. Except there is an over hang and its got 2 walls. The overhang is about 15ft deep.
4 units. Air temp in that area is about 15* degrees over ambient. Loves eating motors.


The only setup ive seen it work:
A server room or wine cellar where the condenser is in the basement. Cooling only, and it doesnt condition the building. Just a small room, and the basement was massive.



The key is getting enough air to the condenser and not getting recirculation.
Youll almost never design it properly. If a person already wants a unit hidden in a building, they arent the type to allow the massive grills and fans neccessary to ventilate the space.

Plus theres the whole humidity problem.
Then theres the problem with insulating and air sealing a space inside a building, that is going to see outside air.

 

[hvacvegas]

Yes. A warehouse for a metal supplier the condensers were located on brackets above the warehouse floor to cool the offices. As always the people sitting at their desks need their air conditioning while the guys on the floor doing the real work had to sweat it out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bupp9YiJvNU

I dont know why this reminded me of this.
Basically you fixing your window unit puts your heat into the other guys room.

 

[Zamoramax]

I have done this a few times. All in S.F. alot of historical buildings that we can't change the face of... we ducted the unit and set a pan under the unit. It was definitely wierd and not something I felt comfortable with but it worked out.

 

[poppa]

the building i used to work in had 10 or 12 inside. single story, 7 acres under the roof. two, 600 ton chillers removed that heat fine

 

[viper1]

Interesting reactions. In this case, because of the office heat gain calc, and the rest of bld as climate controlled, it seems like factors of example like an EER of 20 inside the bld, vs an EER of 10 hanging outside, where as well any heat pump would struggle to provide enough heat if condenser was outside.

I am trying my best to calculate all this while knowing it might not be ideal, if there is a path that makes sense, I need to submit it.

What I am trying to figure out is if any minisplit ducted system could even provide the air handling. This seems more like a true split system to me, in which an annoying scroll condenser buzzing above an office could spell drama.

There is also a concern of combining the air systems of the office and inspection area due to odors. That breaks this down to pretty close to a 600sf office and 400sf inspection area, further complicating this. The inspection area needs tight climate controls with documented values throughout the day.

 

[ESokoloff]

This seems more like a true split system to me, in which an annoying scroll condenser buzzing above an office could spell drama.

I’ve seen plenty of WSHP (water source heat pumps) above office space ceilings.

 

[71CHOPS]

See it all the time in warehouses, production facilities, etc.

Had an auto body stamping plant with a bunch of air cooled chillers inside also. That was a terrible idea, just because of the dust and dirt, in the air.

What's the max indoor temp going to be?

Seems like you're overthinking it.....