I have a situation with a bad heat-pump/AC system that is shaping up to be a nightmare. This is a bit long, but any information or advice is much appreciated.
I had the system installed in 2010 by a franchise of a national heating and AC chain. At that time, my wife and I lived in the house, but we subsequently moved and rented the house out. In 2012, my tenants reported the AC not working and it was repaired under warranty. At the time, they told me that the compressor had failed and that they had replaced it. Everything seemed to working ok and it was taken care of quickly. Later, when I visited the house, I did notice that the exterior unit was totally different and actually a much larger unit. Again, it was apparently working fine, so I didn't think about that any further.
A few days ago, I got a call from my newer tenants about no AC. I called the same HVAC place and they sent a tech out to diagnose the system. His report was that there was no refrigerant in the system at all. He told me that it was an R-22 based system and that it would be expensive to refill due to R-22 being phased out. He also said that we should do a leak search to determine the location of the leak in the system. Repairing the leak once found would be an additional cost. The numbers he gave were shockingly high and I was not feeling happy about paying that much to fix a system only about 6 years old. Of course, the warranty period was for 5 years. . .
Worried about being ripped off, I called for another quote from a competitor. My tenants told me that the second technician was actually much more thorough, and he told me some things that are pretty upsetting about the system. First, he agreed the system was empty of refrigerant. But he also said that when he checked the thermal expansion valve, it was noticeably loose and there was an excess of oil around it. So it looks like an obvious location for a leak, even if there's no guarantee to be the only leak. So an expensive leak search started to sound like a distinct rip-off. But it got worse, he said that the exterior unit (replaced in 2012 under warranty) indicated R-22 compatibility, but the expansion valve was marked as R-410a compatible. He wasn't sure how big a problem that mismatch was, but to me it sounds like an indicator of some level of incorrect work. He also expressed puzzlement as to why an R-22 system would have been installed at that date. In the end, the second HVAC company declined to even try to repair the system. They were uncomfortable with the system configuration and were probably concerned about being held liable in case the whole thing died. They told me that they would love to have my business, but that they recommended I go back to the original company. They did not charge me for the diagnostic visit, much to my surprise (I think he spent about 2 hours at the house!). The potential repair costs they quoted me initially were also much lower than the original company.
So it sounds to me like some incorrect parts were installed either originally or during the 2012 warranty repair. My own research seems to indicate that an incorrect thermal expansion valve can cause compressor overheating. If that's true, could it have caused the original failure (if the mismatch was part of the original install) or could it have created cumulative damage to the current compressor (if the mismatch came about in 2012)? On the EPA website, it says "January 1, 2010: [...]Virgin R-22 may not be used in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers may not produce new air conditioners and heat pumps containing R-22." Does that mean that in 2010 and 2012, an R-22 system should not have been installed in the first place?
All that information taken together makes me think that the system was originally installed as an R-410a system (thus the R-410a compatible expansion valve), but that an R-22 compressor and charge was put in during the 2012 repair. Perhaps as a way to get rid of old inventory and reduce their cost on the warranty repair? It's just a hypothesis on my part, and I hate to be so cynical.
So my questions are:
-How bad is it to have a R-410a valve in an R-22 system?
-Should an R-22 system have been installed in 2010 or 2012?
-In your opinion, should the original company be on the hook for fixing this mess even though it is technically past the warranty period?
-What needs to be done here? A new valve and a refrigerant recharge, or a more complete overhaul?
I had the system installed in 2010 by a franchise of a national heating and AC chain. At that time, my wife and I lived in the house, but we subsequently moved and rented the house out. In 2012, my tenants reported the AC not working and it was repaired under warranty. At the time, they told me that the compressor had failed and that they had replaced it. Everything seemed to working ok and it was taken care of quickly. Later, when I visited the house, I did notice that the exterior unit was totally different and actually a much larger unit. Again, it was apparently working fine, so I didn't think about that any further.
A few days ago, I got a call from my newer tenants about no AC. I called the same HVAC place and they sent a tech out to diagnose the system. His report was that there was no refrigerant in the system at all. He told me that it was an R-22 based system and that it would be expensive to refill due to R-22 being phased out. He also said that we should do a leak search to determine the location of the leak in the system. Repairing the leak once found would be an additional cost. The numbers he gave were shockingly high and I was not feeling happy about paying that much to fix a system only about 6 years old. Of course, the warranty period was for 5 years. . .
Worried about being ripped off, I called for another quote from a competitor. My tenants told me that the second technician was actually much more thorough, and he told me some things that are pretty upsetting about the system. First, he agreed the system was empty of refrigerant. But he also said that when he checked the thermal expansion valve, it was noticeably loose and there was an excess of oil around it. So it looks like an obvious location for a leak, even if there's no guarantee to be the only leak. So an expensive leak search started to sound like a distinct rip-off. But it got worse, he said that the exterior unit (replaced in 2012 under warranty) indicated R-22 compatibility, but the expansion valve was marked as R-410a compatible. He wasn't sure how big a problem that mismatch was, but to me it sounds like an indicator of some level of incorrect work. He also expressed puzzlement as to why an R-22 system would have been installed at that date. In the end, the second HVAC company declined to even try to repair the system. They were uncomfortable with the system configuration and were probably concerned about being held liable in case the whole thing died. They told me that they would love to have my business, but that they recommended I go back to the original company. They did not charge me for the diagnostic visit, much to my surprise (I think he spent about 2 hours at the house!). The potential repair costs they quoted me initially were also much lower than the original company.
So it sounds to me like some incorrect parts were installed either originally or during the 2012 warranty repair. My own research seems to indicate that an incorrect thermal expansion valve can cause compressor overheating. If that's true, could it have caused the original failure (if the mismatch was part of the original install) or could it have created cumulative damage to the current compressor (if the mismatch came about in 2012)? On the EPA website, it says "January 1, 2010: [...]Virgin R-22 may not be used in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers may not produce new air conditioners and heat pumps containing R-22." Does that mean that in 2010 and 2012, an R-22 system should not have been installed in the first place?
All that information taken together makes me think that the system was originally installed as an R-410a system (thus the R-410a compatible expansion valve), but that an R-22 compressor and charge was put in during the 2012 repair. Perhaps as a way to get rid of old inventory and reduce their cost on the warranty repair? It's just a hypothesis on my part, and I hate to be so cynical.
So my questions are:
-How bad is it to have a R-410a valve in an R-22 system?
-Should an R-22 system have been installed in 2010 or 2012?
-In your opinion, should the original company be on the hook for fixing this mess even though it is technically past the warranty period?
-What needs to be done here? A new valve and a refrigerant recharge, or a more complete overhaul?
