Is it causing an unsafe condition? If the furnace has a standing pilot I'm sure it's due for an upgrade, but if it's not causing an unsafe condition I wouldn't shut it down,

 

Well it isn't blowing the pilot out yet, so does the pilot and the end of the burners burning flame on a 1/8 inch crack safe? 1/8 wide and 1 1/2 inch across... burner to burner crack. More of a split than crack but not yet blowing out the pilot.

 

This is the problem, some say it's bad, some say it's good. I always figure ANY crack, Anywhere it can spread and let exhaust fumes into the conditioned area, is a shutdown. But seems like 1 in 10 think it's ok. I can't find any rules on it, but just going with my thinking, it can't get any better it can only get worse and I don't want to be responsible.

 

They made an 80% furnace with a standing pilot? I have seen a continuous spark and hsi? Someone school meh.

 

They did, but the furnace in this thread is not an 80% because Rheem used tubes, not cells in the their 80% pilot furnaces and they did not have the cracking issues.

Both Rheem and Carrier made induced draft 80% furnaces with standing pilots. I still think the Rheems were one of the best furnaces ever made. Unbelievably reliable.

 

a failure is a failure. make a deal with the customer that you will not shut it down provided they make a deal with you and sign your waiver of liability. otherwise disable it/tag it/etc., get your cash and leave.

customers always ask about 'the degree of danger' when there is a failure. if you leave it on and someone is injured or worse the ambulance chasers always come back to you. get your cya or else...

 

I wouldn't worry about the crack. Id clean the crossovers on those burners real good though. Those 80% standing pilot rheems will get plugged up crossovers. With no flame sensor one burner might not light and just dump gas up the chimney. I haven't had one go boom yet but ive seen more then one with only 2 out of 3 burners going.

 

You found a crack, you note it's size and location, but I didn't see anywhere where you noted the CO reading in the house, or in the flue with the furnace running, or more importantly what it is when you are not there. Can you live with that over your head?

The thing is it is probably safe to operate for short term, maybe even long term, but the problem is you don't know, I don't know, no one knows! That 's why it gets disabled when a crack is found. I have found cracks big enough to put your hand in without touching the sides and no CO in the house but the unit sure wasn't safe, there was flame coming out the crack when it was running. I don't know how the pressure switch closed, but it did. So you can't always depend on the safeties keeping things safe.

One final point. If you check a furnace and the HX is fine, you don't know if the next time the unit runs after you leave it won't fail at that time. But the important thing Is that you know it was safe when you left.

 

Wow the rules must be different here!!! You saw a crack in the heat exchanger and by law it must be shut down! Well here anyways! Now I guess you could tag it as a non immediate hazard with a time limit (short), but you must tag it.

 

I would shut it down.


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Our policy is to shut off the gas and electric, red tag the gas shutoff, and make the customer sign off that we advised them not to use it. On anything with an inducer it's nearly impossible to get CO poisoning BUT I've seen them melt wires, burn the paint off the doors, etc. I try not to panic people but I also try to be realistic with them. Most people understand, the ones that argue either don't want to part with money or are so paranoid that they think everyone's out to get them.

I shut a guy down last season with a Rheem that WAS blowing the pilot out. Two other techs couldn't figure it out, after a dye and camera test we showed him the breach and he still thought we were trying to rip him off. He threw the furnace door at me and kicked me out of the house because he thought it was all a scam. He relit the pilot as I was walking out, as far as I know he's still using it,

I don't need business from people like that anyway, so nothing of value was lost. Let someone else deal with his BS, if he dies in his sleep or the house burns down it's on him not me.



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Small cracks can be covered by a crack fix kit Rheem made. But sounds like these cracks are getting a bit out of hand. This furnace would be at least 21 years old so not worth doing anything with but booting.

 

Ok the rest of the story...... I told this lady that her house had no CO in it, and that crack should be shut down..... I had her buy a CO detector and tried to get her a free furnace from two different govt agency's. After another guy about a mile from her house was put in hospital for CO poisoning, I returned to shut it down. She met me at the door, and I'm not sure she didn't have a baseball bat... But some guy that has been in the business more years than I've been alive told her it was ok to run it like that they don't hurt a thing. So now she is highly upset with me trying to screw her.... alliant says they see it they will shut it down. Rheem tech support says SHUT IT DOWN!!! I say shut em down......... but one guy says what she wants to hear and that must be I'm screwing her...... She was not going to sign anything from me so I called the city inspector and dumped in his lap..... For now her daughter has been contacted and will have someone else look at it. Thanks fellers, I just wanted other opinions.

 

Just a suggestion, next time shut it down and disable it so it can't be run, then tell the HO. You can always go back and restart but getting back in after the fact is difficult. Also that way if "Mister Fix-It" comes in and says it's alright, run it, it's on his head not yours.

 

I was told by a city inspector and a gas company supervisor once that legally we cannot cut wires/intentionally damage the unit so it can't be run. Our company policy covers it quite nicely. Gas off, power off. Customer signs disclaimer that says we feel furnace is unsafe to use, if they turn it back it on they assume all liability. After that it's not my problem anymore.

As a side note, the other day I get called to do a "furnace cleaning". Gas company red-tagged unit for delayed ignition. It lit so hard it blew the top door off. Armstrong with a shorted gas valve coil, when module powered PV for pilot spark both PV and MV opened. It must've been that way a while, heat exchanger was massively cracked and fouled. I shut him down and told him nope. His wife lit me up like a Christmas tree. She claimed we were trying to rob her because the gas co. said it just needed a cleaning. I showed them heat exchanger with a camera, she still yelled and complained. Her husband let slip that they were trying to sell the house and a city inspector wrote them pages of code violations that had to be fixed. They wanted out cheap, and she didn't want to face the problem.

She ended up stiffing me for payment, yelling and telling me to leave. I can't wait until I see the house on the news after some idiot on Craigslist goes there and re-lights it.

Some people you just can't help.



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I told this lady, what idiot told you that? She said I'm not gonna tell you. But it's Mr 80 year old man in town that used to think he was a furnace guy.

 

If it's a real danger call the gas company. They'll lock the meter if she refuses.

 

It has happened too many times at our company were we assume we are going back to do repair only to have the customer refuse as they talked to another company that said all is well. Our policy is "write the tag" cover your ass!!!! After tag is wrote you have no worries it is out of your hands. There are hundreds of stories out there about this but there is only one right way to do this, write the tag! Tell the customer they are free to have another company come in if they feel you have done something unethical. Dont get confrontational, dont get angry, just write the tag!!!

 

I am curious about "the law" that says a serviceman must shut-down or tag an unsafe furnace.
where is it written cause I would like to see it? I'm not saying there isn't one or that it is not a good practice, but that I've never seen it written?

 

There isn't one in Tn.... At my previous employer we tagged the furnace with a paint pen and had cust sign a release.....

 

Turn the furnace switch off.
Inform the customer.
Have them sign.

Move on with life.

 

It's really hard to lock out a furnace in the middle of the winter up in our area. Not because we can't it's because it so blanking cold . But we do what is best for the home owner and our selves. It matters not how much the customer appreciates you for leaving it alone . they forget all about you when there in the hospital from the dang thing and the next thing you know , there's a letter address to you from her lawyer. Tag and lock it out ,

 

In Ontario all unsafe conditions must be rectified immediatly or tagged as per tssa (technical saftey standards authority). Its pretty cold here as well lol. All my techs have small 1500 watt heaters on there trucks and we leave 4 or 5 in emergencies. Its not a nice feeling to turn off a furnace but it is the law. Is a small crack in a induced draft a danger? Well probably not but it is a crack and must be fixed. I once told a customer that it was not dangerous but still needed to be shut off and they flipped. Now i tell them yes it is and it is my duty to shut it down. Try telling a customer that has a natural draft boiler that he needs to have a CO test done on it when your called to look at a fireplace and if he wont allow it you have ti turn it off lol. Thats the law here as well.