[ELS]

OK, so a little background info... on the home and previous setup...

Purchased a 14x70 mobile home in 1996... actually almost 14x66 actual...

At that time I had what to the best of my knowledge was a 2.5 ton 12 seer unit coupled with a 3 ton indoor A coil, installed in a Coleman EB12 downflow furnace... which I believe is 924 CFM?... and good for up to 3.5 ton? I believe the heatpump brand name was Vexar?

Anyways, zero complaints with it since 1996... before and after the remodel.

If anything, it blew too hard, didn't run quite enough in the summer, and made it a bit dry in winter.

So anyways, the years got the best of the unit inside... I found a leak in a copper loop on the end... and last winter's snow and ice took a toll on the outdoor part.

So problems started to show up this summer after I lost my job....

 

[ELS]

So here I was with no job and a system I felt was likely best I just replaced... but in a financial bind.

I was lucky enough to get ahold of a "known to me" system to put together here.

So what I had installed was a nearly unused Rheem RPKA 025 JAZ outdoor unit.
I believe that is 2 ton 10 seer scroll compressor?

Inside what I had installed was a nearly unused Rheem replacement coil by Allstyle.
Unit is model ASRSP366322.... which I believe is 2.5 or 3 ton????

And I had to change thermostats so I used a Honeywell VisionPRO TH8000 series.

Kept the furnace and blower.


I was here for the install, and feel the installers did their job in installing my parts.

 

[ELS]

Now, everything seems "spot on" as it should be.

I think the install is very good, the methods used were right, think the charging resulted in the gauge readings that were right, etc... Temps at the registers and return seem to look good, etc..

The only difference I really notice is that it no longer seems to blow as hard...


My big worry and frustration is.... IT RUNS ALL THE TIME ON COOLING!!!

You could almost literally set a clock by it during the day.
It runs about 25 minutes... off about 5 minutes, then back on to repeat continuous.

The temperature shown on the thermostat never deviates away from the set temp.
Humidity stays in the 40's.

I just don't understand the running cycle during the day... worries me about the life and the power bill.


I cannot for the life of me understand why it runs so long and then stays off such a short period? I have checked all the settings on the thermostat and it's running on temp only... and I see no way of adjusting how much it allows the temp to change before turning back on.

That is about all I can come up with... but even if the range there was very small... well it still worries me because I don't understand why it would take it so long to change the temperature a degree or less.


I don't understand what I have going on... and I'm concerned...

I'd like to read several professional opinions about this because I am LOST!!!

 

[ELS]

And... You are asking?....

​

Sorry, it was a little long so I was breaking it up so it would be hopefully easier to read...

I feel it is running way too much... (post #4)

 

[ELS]

Sorry you are $$$ crunched,but it sounds like everything is mismatched.

​

Good, I was hoping you guys would understand the crunch and would see I'd never do this ordinarily. Never.

I was a contractor (not HVAC) for years until my health went downhill.
So I don't use hack contractors for anything or go cheap on stuff.

In '96 I went with the best contractor for this job and the most efficient equipment I could and made sure it was not too small. I had guys quote me less, recommend lesser and smaller stuff... and bashing of brands to promote their "name brand" equipment... etc.

I did nothing but change the filter for 14 years and never had a power bill over $100.


Again this time, despite the money crunch I used good people and tried to use good equipment, although it was not brand hammer new or the highest efficiency. Did the best I could there instead of trying to patch on a 14 year old system. Otherwise I would have of course looked into the tax credit thing and went with brand new higher efficiency stuff than I had.

I used 2 guys who know each other and trade work from time to time. Had them come work together on this one. The one guy does Rheem but not mobile homes and the other knows Rheem but usually passes the Rheem stuff to the other guy. This was their idea and I felt like I would be hard pressed to do better than that.


So what do you think is mis-matched? I'd appreciate opinions...

Indoor coil and outdoor unit?...
I and we were kind of thrown off by the Rheem replacement coil (Allstyle).

Or unit as a whole and furnace/blower setup?

Or indoor coil and blower or flow direction?

 

[ELS]

Well. You went from a 2.5 ton, to a 2 ton. So that will increase your run time.
You went from a 12 SEER to a 10 SEER, so your bill probably will be a bit higher.

As for run time. Its probably the thermostat. Its probably set up wrong. And is trying to do what it is set up to do.

Yeah, I had what I think was a 2.5 ton 12 seer with a 3 ton indoor coil.

The majority of bidders quoted on a straight 1.5 or 2 ton unit back then.
I went the other route which proved to be a good decision.

A little more run time I don't think would hurt... as I believe the old setup was a bit large. This just seems like too much run time.

The installers think it is the thermostat too. I have been through the install and operator manuals a couple times and don't see anything out of whack that jumps out at me. And I don't see an OPTION to adjust how much the temp can change before it kicks back on.

I have turned it up one degree right after a shut off and it takes a while for my indoor temp to rise a degree... even when 90 and sunny out.

And I have a hard time understanding it running 25 minutes and not dropping the temp a whole degree.

Like I say it stays at the set temp always, and humidity stays in the 40's.

 

[ELS]

I like you guys... lol...

I can tell you guys aren't lowballing hacks.

You fellows would get along with my guys great.



With that said, I feel really confident with the work they did on the install.
And likewise, questioning their work and having them back out to recheck it is last resort.

It's disrespectful... especially considering...


It is no different than if one of you guys had installed the equipment I provided...
And then I pointed the finger at your work.

 

[ELS]

CPH... is set to 3...

The cycles per hour is not something I understand.
Does it cause 3 run cycles per hour or limit to 3?

I bought a digital thermometer with humidity that displays low and high also.

It reads 4 degrees below the thermostat temp.
And it reads 4% above the thermostat humidity.

It has recorded a 1 degree difference in low and high temp.
It has recorded a 10% difference in low and high humidity.

70-71
47-57 %


I am happy with the comfort level.
I am only concerned with how much it runs because I am not accustomed to that.

 

[ELS]

Once again we are asked to evaluate a system from a thousand miles away.Without being there and taking readings it is an impossible task.
I would like to know the actual readings i.e. the temp drop across the coil,the super heat reading,the blower speed setting if differant from the old unit,what freon are you using,what if anything is differant between indoor coils physicaly,Did you change any ductwork for new unit,did you change the filtering system,are there any indication of obstruction in the line set,you did change the dryers i hope,what are the amp readings on the motors and compressor ,are there any strange noises you did't have before,plus about a dozen other things that come into play.
This business is not an art,it is a science and you need to know the numbers and what they mean.

I wish I could remember.
I was out there with them during all this and we even discussed what was going on. I just didn't retain it... cause I don't know what the mean honestly.

I remember something about sub-cooling, super heat, suction pressure, head pressure, temperature drop, and so forth like that...

I know they achieved the readings they were looking for... and they were glad because they were kind of concerned before getting to charging the system... BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS INDOOR COIL... I mean it is a direct aftermarket Rheem replacement coil, but not Rheem brand.

They were questioning if the coil was 2.5 or 3.0 ton, the piston size, what would match up... and if it would possibly be too large for the outdoor unit.

About all I can remember on numbers was something was in the neighborhood of 50... I remember 50? I think something was also 16 and was improved to 22? And something was 60 something and was improved to 50 something...

Some of that was outside, and some of it was inside right after when it was running.

It was like 92 outside at the time and like 80-something inside at startup.

That's probably all useless... sorry.

************

Blower... same blower, same speed....
But wait now... it sure does not move the same amount of air out the vents.

Yes there are physical differences between my old coil and the new coil.

My old coil was taller and came to a sharp a-frame peak .^.

The new coil is slightly longer but not oversize for the location.
The new coil is shorter and so it has a shape like this / \ rather than .^.
The angles I think were the same... just a shorter coil that don't come all the way together to a peak.

I haven't wanted to say anything, but I think this coil poses a lot more flow restriction.

******************************

No changes in the duct work... unless something came apart I don't know about.
I should check that... which will remind me again of another down side to mobile homes... can't see any of this.

R-22 in the system... re-used the line set as it was still OK... just replaced and added stuff on each end to put it all together. Filled with nitrogen, pulled a vacuum for a long time...

No new noises... it just sounds slightly different in here when it kicks on.
And it is not as loud as before on the blowing sound.

 

[ELS]

tedkidd,

I felt concerned and frustrated because I am not accustomed to this operation. I'm used to being comfortable, $70 power bills, and operation like 10-15 on / 20 or more off.

It was bugging me because my house gains/looses nothing to speak of in a 5 minute period.

And concerned me by running 25 minutes without dropping temp a whole degree.

*********************

So fingers have been pointed at the thermostat, including my own. My original opinion was that it did not have enough temp-spread between tripping on and cutting off. BUT...

1- Of all the features it has, it offers no adjustment for this.
2- Still did not clear up the running 25 minutes and not changing a degree in temp in my mind.



In the end, based on what you say, it sounds like this system does not do near the temperature changing work of my old unit.... but that this Rheem is more appropriately sized for my application.

In the end, I guess the best thing to do at this point is just wait and see how much more electricity it consumes... if it warms back up and starts running again... it hasn't ran since Saturday afternoon, except when the oven was on, and for humidity reduction since I turned that feature on (nice). Like it's been a high of 60 today and has been a stable 72 degrees in here for days.

In the end though, I don't know how the power consumption will compare on this 2 ton 10 seer outdoor... compared to the previous 2.5 ton outdoor which I think was a 12 seer back in 1996?

I think I will get a better idea of how it actually performs if it heats back up out.
Rather than judging it the first couple days after it had been 80 in here for a while and no telling how hot in the attic as a result.

***************************************

After observing operation a while and changing blower speeds... in the end I think the greatest difference between my old setup and the new setup is somehow this new A coil is more restrictive on the air flow than the old coil.

I don't understand that.

 

[ELS]

cpark,

Oh yeah, my place is tiny... simple square footage is 924 sq ft and I have less than that inside in all actuality.

Mine is a singlewide so I have one big square duct running the length with 6 ducts that my system blows down into.

 

[ELS]

Yeah, this is a little 2 bed 2 bath....
And originally I thought some space might be added on...

And the original contractor suggested 2.5 ton and high seer, as he thought I might add on too. So we did 2.5 ton 12 seer outdoor and 3 ton indoor back in 1996... and nothing was ever added on.

One of the two guys who did the changeout was one of the original contractors from 1996.
The other was the Rheem guy.
The two of them decided just the two of them would team up on this odd request of mine.

Now what I have outside is a 2 ton 10 seer. And inside is either 2.5 or 3 ton... I can't tell from Allstyle's website. It is model ASRSP366322.

This is all I could find...

http://www.allstyle.com/casedUncasedImages/Uncased.pdf

 

[ELS]

You would expect long shutoff after long run. Any other changes to the home? How leaky is it, can you get a blower door test done?

Like I say... the house is actually really good at maintaining temp.
It takes it a long time to heat up or as of right now cool down...

Like it has been 55 out for several hours now... and the temp has only dropped 4 degrees since outdoor temp fell below indoor temp... and that was with the help of the AC kicking on a few times for short cycles.

Not sure what you mean by the blower door test... but I assume what is passing by instead of going through the coil??? If so that was sealed off the day of install and made a big difference in temperature at the registers. They installed a new tray but didn't get it perfect the first try... they re-worked it and I installed weather stripping to totally seal off.

 

[ELS]

Oh crap... and thanks for posting dude... and making me write the above...

Just realized it's the F'n thermostat!!!!

It's bad.


Well, either it is bad or the secondary thermometer you guys suggested I pick up is bad.

The reason is... still the thermostat temp reading has not budged off 74 degrees.
Yet right now my thermometer reads 70 degrees... and has a stored low of 68 degrees from earlier.

There is no way it is 74 in here right now.

 

[ELS]

I wanted to come back and update... and offer thanks to those who were willing to offer what they could.

To follow up, my electric bills went to literally DOUBLE and worse. Unreal.

I swapped out the thermostat for another like it. It started to perform much better. I mean it still runs a lot more than my old unit, but not as much as it was with the previous thermostat.

My power bill pretty much dropped back to normal for one month. December has given it a real workout though. I ended up dragging the tester back out and messing around with my fan speed some more... and made some changes that increased my heat temp at the register. That seemed to help... and for whatever reason, this caused my master area to go back to being hotter than the rest of the house as it used to be with the old system.

But here again my bill is real high. But others are complaining the same thing, so I am going to assume for now that it's the Christmas gouge and wait to see what the next bill looks like.


Overall, I think these days my house is more comfortable at all times than it was before... and if the normal electric bills return again, I will assume this thing runs more while consuming around the same energy. Some day I think I will buy another totally different thermostat that has the features this one does, but also allows me to set how much the temp changes before it cycles back on. I also don't like how I don't know my backup heat is cycled on unless I feel or smell it.

As for my fan setup, I am still confused and unhappy with it. It is different now and does not seem to operate at variable speeds like it did before this install. Haven't quite figured that out.

As for the Rheem stuff... as an end user I am just going to be bluntly honest. I still have the belief this equipment might just be of higher quality than what I had. But outside of that I would be lying if I said I was impressed with it otherwise.

Frankly I am not really impressed at all with the abilities or the operation. Noise is one aspect of it. It's not really quite inside nor out. And it will at times make some strange noises outside occasionally that really concerned me at first. I have since figured out other ones I have paid attention to do it as well occasionally just like mine does. And I can hear the unit cycling outside sometimes, and the defrost is loud too.

And while I am thinking about defrost, it does not take much for it to trip into defrost... which cycles my backup heat. I noticed this when I first started using the heat... heard a weird noise outside and smelled the strips come on for the first time. I walked out in confusion. Still yet, I find that it never has visible frost/ice I can see. Don't know if this is normal for Rheem or not???

As for the indoor coil, again looks like a nicer piece... but I am certain it does not flow near as well, and it creates more noise. I swear when I open my door, it sounds like my fan slows down? Very wierd... can't tell if it really does that or if it is just a reduction in noise.


In the end, unless this system wins me over during the life of it, I do not believe I will own Rheem again. I believe I will instead go with some other unit that many installers peer down their noses at because it is not a Rheem or a Rudd or a Trane or whatever... I just think I will redistribute the saved beans into better efficiency, more BTU, upgrading the indoor coil, TXV, and so forth....

Not trying to ruffle any feathers with that, just trying to be honest and offer up some end-user feedback for those of you that have some appreciation for insight coming from your potential customer's point of view.