[taylor2]

You'll all love this. Talking with a local gas company tech as I repaired his furnace, he was telling me about some furnaces he had recently red tagged. One was a brand new 95%er with no visible filter rack. He asked the customer if there was a filter inside the furnace. He told him the guy who installed it told him these new high efficiency furnaces don't need a filter any more. :eek2: They just adopted a tag out policy for 90+% furnaces without air filters in use, so he was required to red tag it and turn off the gas to the furnace. He told them they needed to do some further research on the topic and get a second opinion.

Yep, someone is professionally installing furnaces in my area telling customers an air filter is a thing of the past. Should result in quite a few calls in the future resulting from plugged blowers, secondaries, coils. so here's a question, professionally speaking, if you knew the contractor/installer doing something like this, would you ask them what in the world they were thinking the next time you saw them at a supply house? Or just keep your mouth shut and let them continue to wrong people like this?

 

[buford]

I would think the people who were getting red tagged and then no heat would be on him for the bill. And why are you servicing the gas guys furnace? he does not know how to do that?

 

[taylor2]

He actually has a total electric. Older trane heat pump system we'll likely be replacing soon and the motor was out.
I do hope the customer took his advice and demands refund or for him to make it right. But, my question can be broadened to include any blatant misleading of customers, like the standard Bradford white water heater at the house I was at today a plumber installed last year and vented to existing drier vent about 12" for ground level, not a power vented water heater. That's how the old one was hooked up for years he told me, as long as he can remember. He understood the danger when the breeze coming in through the hood blew a match out.
I'm relatively young compared to most of the hvac techs/installers around here and have already made a reputation for not being shy about pointing out poor/dangerous practices others have done, repair or install. I don't bad mouth others, I simply inform customers of what i found wrong and how it should have been done. and it seems it's made it back to some of the people who did the work. I don't even ask who did it, sometimes the HO offer that info on their own.

I'm just curious how you all feel about situations like this? I personally find it hard to bight my tongue when the installer who did the system I just spent half the day doing over wants to chat about jobs while sitting at the counter waiting on parts.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I've screwed things up before, but I personally would rather be told about it. It sinks in deeper and sticks longer when you are corrected by a peer in my opinion. But then, some people just don't care.

 

[buford]

It's a fine line i have found, on findings wrongs like that and what you say, and to whom. I just usually say to the customer what i see and explain what's wrong, If it is a serious safety issue , i would make sure it was communicated that way, and put it all in writing for everyone's protection. As to saying something to the person who did that , you make that call yourself. Seems like in this trade, no matter how big or small the town,word goes around, good or bad on your reputation.:.02:

 

[taylor2]

Thanks. I generally avoid conflict as much as I can. If it were a co-worker I would speak freely as my reputation would be on the line as well. We are small family owned and run business, only 2 non family employees. I will likely be inheriting the business in the future and I'm trying to build up personal & business ethics now, less to think about when my plate gets that much fuller.

 

[snupytcb]

what gives them the right to shut off a furnace if there is no filter? it isn't a safety issue is it? if they are willing to run without one do ou think they will change one every month? a dirty filter is more dangerous than no filter imo. this guy selling furnaces like this needs to be found and told. he obviously doesn't read any manuals.

 

[Scott Kline]

what gives them the right to shut off a furnace if there is no filter? it isn't a safety issue is it? if they are willing to run without one do ou think they will change one every month? a dirty filter is more dangerous than no filter imo. this guy selling furnaces like this needs to be found and told. he obviously doesn't read any manuals.

Read manuals?? You don't have to know how to read to do HVACR! This is a real mans job! Git R dun!!


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[Scott Kline]

You'll all love this. Talking with a local gas company tech as I repaired his furnace, he was telling me about some furnaces he had recently red tagged. One was a brand new 95%er with no visible filter rack. He asked the customer if there was a filter inside the furnace. He told him the guy who installed it told him these new high efficiency furnaces don't need a filter any more. :eek2: They just adopted a tag out policy for 90+% furnaces without air filters in use, so he was required to red tag it and turn off the gas to the furnace. He told them they needed to do some further research on the topic and get a second opinion.

Yep, someone is professionally installing furnaces in my area telling customers an air filter is a thing of the past. Should result in quite a few calls in the future resulting from plugged blowers, secondaries, coils. so here's a question, professionally speaking, if you knew the contractor/installer doing something like this, would you ask them what in the world they were thinking the next time you saw them at a supply house? Or just keep your mouth shut and let them continue to wrong people like this?

If you feel the need to call the guilty party out go ahead. Just remember what goes around comes around. You are in the right here and somebody needs to tell these guys what they are doing is unprofessional and ethically wrong. I'm sure the HO who got their gas shut off has made that abundantly clear to them by now. Calling another contractor out in public at the counter may be a little extreme. If it were me I would pick up the phone and have a conversation with the boss at that company. Give him the benefit of the doubt and present the issue like you're doing him a favor because you assume he doesn't know (he will by now).
Too many people keep their mouths shut when they see wrongdoing. Good men need to stand up and call it what it is. I think you'll be respected for it.


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[taylor2]

Oh I would never be bold enough to call someone out at a counter or even in front of anyone but them for that matter.

Are you referring to the installer guides I often find tucked beside the inducer or in the blower compartment? where they came from factory. I would think if they knew half of what they were doing wrong they would take the papers with them in case the homeowner decided to do some casual reading.

Both the gas man and myself are shocked at the new policy. For long term safety purposes a filter should be used, but if they're trying to look that far in the future for potential failures I guess they should be training their techs in manual j as well to ensure proper system performance. Chronic oversizers run rampid around here as well.

 

[buford]

I think the gas co should be called out on the new policy, they supply the gas up to and out of the meter, what other say, further down the line do they think they control.

 

[Coolerhead]

I'd try and sell him the Brooklyn Bridge. He sounds gullible enough.

 

[taylor2]

Years ago, before my time, the gas men actually did a lot of service and repair work as well. Then their policies changed and they weren't allowed to touch the equipment other than lighting pilots. Now they are apparently supposed to light pilots if existing and fire up appliances to ensure proper operation.
Personally I think their responsibility should end at pressure testing lines and ensuring properly appliance hook ups, gas shut offs, drip legs. But it seems they can't make up their mind where their responsibility ends and the home owners begins.
We have had an unacceptable amount of homes explode in past years from both propane and natural gas in near by areas, so I guess they're trying to protect themselves from lawsuits is all I can figure.

 

[Scott Kline]

Years ago, before my time, the gas men actually did a lot of service and repair work as well. Then their policies changed and they weren't allowed to touch the equipment other than lighting pilots. Now they are apparently supposed to light pilots if existing and fire up appliances to ensure proper operation.
Personally I think their responsibility should end at pressure testing lines and ensuring properly appliance hook ups, gas shut offs, drip legs. But it seems they can't make up their mind where their responsibility ends and the home owners begins.
We have had an unacceptable amount of homes explode in past years from both propane and natural gas in near by areas, so I guess they're trying to protect themselves from lawsuits is all I can figure.

Yeah that's the rub. Every time I hear that line "we care about your safety" I think "no you don't. You want to prevent your butt from being sued in the event of an accident." I was thinking the same thing about the gas co. They must have be found liable at some point or close enough to scare them into forming this policy to cover their rear ends. Not really to protect the customers.


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[buford]

When i started out it was the same way, now it seems the gas men are a lot younger and a lot less experienced. Around here they have on their trucks, that they are the EXPERTS for repairs. They also were selling parts like ignitors cheaper than we could buy them for. Sometimes they would fix it, other times they would say call a contractor, after making you wait for them to show up first. The problem a lot of the contractors had, was they could to all those repair calls and not worry about making money on them as the gas rates were paying for it all. They should be just like the water ,elec, cable and the others utility and stay on their side of the meter.

 

[taylor2]

Any big business has that mentality. I do however strongly recommend the use of a CO & explosive gas detector to all of our propane customers now after a recent potentially catastrophic incident at our secretary's house.

I can't say I blame them to a point. Who ever reads the contract when they agree to any kind of gas service? And how screwed up are so many judgements made because of stupid people. Who knew coffee was hot before someone sued McDonalds?

Common sense isn't that common, and they know it.

 

[buford]

Most of the recent gas accidents are outside the dwelling or on the distribution side.

 

[jtrammel]

Most of the recent gas accidents are outside the dwelling or on the distribution side.

Or intentional insurance fraud.

 

[mrkelly]

Well,Looong ago, heat ONLY unit's,pre 90% stuff,filters WERE optional as air just went thru heat ex,'s and everything was good outside of the "smell" when first fired (which could be interesting also) leave it to the A/C to foul things up with these new fangled "coil" gizmos to "stop up". Went thru the "Gas Co." getting into the HVAC biz and dealing with gas a/c's and them providing "service" on them and going "out of the biz" an leaving "US" to deal with it.Today,(exactly how many pilot lites are actually out there?) they just "observe" the situation to make sure "It's safe to use" and CTA.Hey,Cool with me as they don't know much and I personally would rather make the $$$ and reassure the customer it's good to go or have the chance to sell.

 

[ts5089]

I've read on other post that Ohio was a pain in the but to get licensing and such, how did these new furnaces pass Inspection if Ohio is so tuff? My thought on the telling, It is your duty to tell the customer of safety issues, and to fix them. Informing the other company's owner like said before I think is the right approach.
Mike