2stories
2systems

 

This has always been my philosophy as well. If your system is in the basement, how much air flow do you expect 30 or 40 feet away?

2 smaller systems will be cheaper to operate than one large one.

I know it is an expense, but your comfort important as well.

 

This is my 3rd home that I have bought, 6th home that I have lived in with all but one being a two story. If the answer is 2stories/2systems then why isn't a fraction of the new constructions now days doing that? Sounds like an easy answer to give....

 

If the answer is 2stories/2systems then why isn't a fraction of the new constructions now days doing that?

New home builders don't use two systems because it's a lot more expensive. Everything in new construction is cost driven. The builder doesn't care if you're comfortable, they just blame the HVAC installers.

Typically in newer homes temperature imbalance between floors is the result of undersized ductwork, both supply and return. Unfortunately, adding new ducts usually means ripping out walls and floors.

Zoning your system may be an option depending on how your ductwork to the upstairs is installed. If you plan to live in the house long-term then adding a separate system for upstairs is a decent option.

 

Dougfamous, I would agree with your response (that it is expensive) because that is why it is my last resort if I can't get the rooms closer to the first floor.

We plan on this being our last house which is why I'm ok with spending some money on this but I also have to think once we are empty nesters about those 3 bedrooms being empty. I see that mini splits have units that can go into the attic but we only have a small opening to get up there and with all the insulation it would be a pain in the ass if it had to be serviced.

So, I think that leaves me with:

trying to balance the duck work as I can feel with my hand a difference between vents in rooms.
Zoning my current setup??
Installing another system

If I had to put in two systems, would either piece of equipment be able to be kept and used?

 

In that case two independent systems makes Even More Sense. Once the FIL and kids are gone the second floor temperatures can be controlled as un-occupied and so substantially reduce normal operating costs - while easily providing for guests, holidays, and so forth.

Yes; keep the first floor system and add the second floor system. Especially as I previously described. <g>

PHM
--------

 

To be able to be comfortable you're going to need an exceptional duct man, designer and probably duct modifications. That leads to construction!

Get a deceit duct guy and replace the existing equipment with 2 systems. Loose the run from 1st to 2nd floors and gain the floor space.

Donate the old equipment to a charity and take the tax write off.

 

Becuause you are a Pro, I moved your thread inside the PRO Residential forum.

The AOP Residential forum is for our homeowner Guests to ask questions.

Please take note of this new location as the "Moved" icon in the other forum will only last a day.

 

pecmsg, I was already planning on opening the chase in the basement where all the duct work that isn't exposed is. Unfortunately I won't be gaining any space still as the duct work to the 2nd floor will need to be where it is.

My current HVAC guy is great but a small independent shop. I would guess that I need to look else where for an exceptional duct man? Any suggestions where?

 

Having a Great HVAC Guy is one thing. KNOWING 'ducts and duct stuff' is another thing. But BUTT, if I was your Great HVAC Guy ,I would be insulted as all hell to find out that 'I' was ignored and dismissed with ANYTHING related to your HVAC system being done by ANYONE else.

 

A 'Certified Energy Efficient' home? What does 'Certified' mean? Who did the certifying?

A lol, here. If you make the 2nd floor colder ,then there goes the efficiency due to using more electricity.

Getting a knowledgeable 'tin knocker' should be in your future. Where is the Main Trunk located and is there access to where the 'take off' take off of the Main Trunk?

 

Techman, I would agree with you on your statement about being ignored. I have already been communicating with him on this and was waiting till I had the duct work exposed. Again though you guys talk about a good duct person, I have to either take his word or get other opinions which what I'm going to do anyways. If he tells me he either isn't that knowledgeable or doesn't want to mess with it then I have my answer regarding his input but then I'm back to finding that holy grail of a duct person.

All the duct work in the basement will be exposed because the main trunk line currently has drywall (soon to be removed) around it with the rest of the ceiling a drop ceiling.

 

There’s a very knowledgeable guy in Mason, OH. LMK if you want his contact information.

 

Kdean1, please PM me his info! Thanks

 

Put your email in your profile and I'll send you the contact info. Don't put it in the post, site rules don't allow it.

The company is Housch Home Energy. You can google that. Michael Housch is a home performance expert.

 

Is there a dedicated return duct for the 2nd floor?

 

Kdean1, email has been updated!

Techman, each room has its own return. My diagram above has the blue down arrows in my first post. They do though run next to the first floor returns (there are two on the first floor) with an open grill that allows air from the first floor to join.

 

Air will always follow the path of least resistance. I suspect that the first floor returns have more air flow than the distant 2nd floor returns.

 

I would agree. The wall cavity for the first floor return is not capped off and continues upstairs. The second floor return cavity is open to the first floor.

I know there is static pressure and all but IF possibly the returns from the second floor didn't tie into the first maybe it would be a little closer??

 

I would agree. The wall cavity for the first floor return is not capped off and continues upstairs. The second floor return cavity is open to the first floor.

I know there is static pressure and all but IF possibly the returns from the second floor didn't tie into the first maybe it would be a little closer??

Is the cavity capped and sealed off from the attic? More than once I have found such cavities to be open and drawing in heat and humidity from the attic. It needs to be confirmed. Only then are other actions justified.

i agree with the suggestion given of adding some mini-splits to the upper level.

 

I would see if a slim duct setup wit limited duct runs and a few strategically placed wall hung mini splits or floor units could be installed instead of a full blown system.

 

That is a good idea...

Since you are getting some conditioning upstairs, you just need a little more to augment what you already have.

 

If this were my problem to solve I would add a completely independent 1.5 ton system in the attic. Cold air falls so my arrangement would be to set the second floor system 2º colder than the first floor system. Use remote sensing averaging on the first floor with the two sensors are far from the stairway as possible. The second floor system can be set up to provide the greatest dehumidifying performance AND have the longer run time. This oftern overlooked factor would add tremendously to the comfort of you home.

Anything else you do will done in the face of an unsatisfactory risk/reward ratio. That is; very unlikely to produce the desired result.

I personally would use a small Unico system in the attic but a standard air handler system would be less expensive.

PHM
---------

We have been in our 2-story (2800sqf) now for 7yrs. Now that the kids are getting older, the wife is getting older and we have my FIL living with us I am getting complaints about the temperature in the bedrooms on the 2nd floor. Its been in the mid 90's for the past could of days and with the tstat on 73, the master is 77 with kids room at 80 and FIL at 82. The house was built in 86' and is a certified energy efficient home and has a shit ton of insulation in the attic!

I know to get the temperature of the 2nd floor can be done at a cost. Would balancing out the ducts be able to bring those rooms closer to the first floor or is my current system not able to do it?

View attachment 878069 View attachment 878071 View attachment 878073

I thought about mini splits but don't want the lines going up the house and a second system would do the trick but besides the cost, the kids will be out of the house in a couple of years so I won't have them bit@@ at me!

Thanks

 

Currently, the only access to the attic is through a small access in our master closet. The 2nd floor landing area currently has a whole house fan there that I suppose could be removed as we don't use it that much and I currently have it blocked off with insulation to keep the heat from dropping from the attic?

We also need more heat in the winter for those three other bed rooms.

I think I just need to start getting contractors over to give quotes and suggestions!

 

How big is the attic..can u stand in there?

 

Yes, its big enough to stand in, especially in the center of the house.

 

If there's space in the attic then put some plywood down and install the slim duct unit. Drop a few supply vents in places needed and call it a day. You probably just need a 1.5-2 ton setup to supplement the capacity of the other unit. In the long run you probably will save money as setpoints will be reached faster and units wont run all day long but cycle on and off as normal. Fujitsu is real nice but damn expensive.

https://www.fujitsugeneral.com/us/products/split/msp-duct/aruh24luas1r.html

Or try some other brands. What may make it worth it is the unit will be smaller and fit more easily. If not then a 1.5 ton ahu and I think rheem makes the shorts ahu at 42". Btw get an attic access door installed. That will make it much easier to get into the attic.

 

The insulation board has helped out a lot but I can still feel the heat when it gets into the 90's!

If you guys think if I removed the attic fan and put in a full pull down ladder that a mini split of some kind would work up there that would be the ticket! I did see some units that went into the attic that had the duct work coming out of the ceiling but those units were big and didn't think about adding in a new ladder to get up there.