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iowaguy

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I was just wondering since the new 13 SEER manufacturing mandate if all the remaining 10 SEER units are getting snatched up?

What do you think the supply/demand for these 10 SEER units is? Are contractors snatching them up?

I may need a new system but I won't need it installed for another 5 months. I wonder if any 10 SEER units will be available in July.

I'm sure you're scratching your head as to why I want a 10 SEER unit. Here's the reason: My present system is 40 years old and I've been informed that it is only about 6 SEER. The present system has a leak somewhere but it does cool my house very efficiently. My highest monthly cooling bill I have ever had is $20.

I just don't see the point in putting in a 13 SEER A/C. Even if it drops my bill in half it will take a VERY long time to recoup the cost between a 10 SEER vs. 13 SEER.
 
I am in your general area Iowaguy. 10 seer are available now but I wouldn't count on it in July. According to my distributor they have limited quantities and no more in the pipeline.

Dar
 
iowa guy, you may not want to make assumptions about the payback between 10 and 13 seers. The manufacturers are aware they need to remain competitive. Plus, I would look beyond the seer ratings to added features and benefits such as added warranties, safety controls, etc.
 
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our Rheem supplier was having a terrible time getting Rheem's 10 seer evaps for the past few months. i was told by them that Rheem had went full bore on producing 10 seer condensers while they still could. apparently 10 seers will be plentiful by me.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
John Lloyd said:
iowa guy, you may not want to make assumptions about the payback between 10 and 13 seers. The manufacturers are aware they need to remain competitive. Plus, I would look beyond the seer ratings to added features and benefits such as added warranties, safety controls, etc.
Good points but if I was more than satisfied with my average $10 cooling bill and my 40 year old AC system I have the feeling that a 10 SEER will be more than fits the bill.
 
carriers having trouble with high seer stuff, there out of 13 and 14 seer heat pumps, but have plenty of 10 and 12.
just about every system we have sold in the last six months have been 13 and up not one 12 or less.

the bible does teach us one thing. a fool says in his heart there is no God. But that fool will tremble on that day.
 
iowa: ask yourself this one question. Why would you purposly invest in something that hyou KNOW is not only going to be obsolete, but is actually in the process of becoming so as we speak? p.s. if you're talking about 10 seer, then you gotta be talking about R-22, correct?
 
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John....10 seer works for lots of people depeding on their location and R-22 is far from obsolete.







What You Should Know about Refrigerants When Purchasing or Repairing a Residential A/C System or Heat Pump

DISCLAIMER: EPA seeks to promote energy efficiency and the safe use of ozone- friendly substances, and does not endorse any particular company or its products.

_____________________________________________________

Background: Ban on Production and Imports of Ozone-Depleting Refrigerants

In 1987 the Montreal Protocol, an international environmental agreement, established requirements that began the worldwide phaseout of ozone-depleting CFCs (chlorofluorocarbons). These requirements were later modified, leading to the phase out in 1996 of CFC production in all developed nations. In addition, a 1992 amendment to the Montreal Protocol established a schedule for the phaseout of HCFCs (hydrochlorofluorocarbons). HCFCs are substantially less damaging to the ozone layer than CFCs, but still contain ozone-destroying chlorine. The Montreal Protocol as amended is carried out in the U.S. through Title VI of the Clean Air Act, which is implemented by EPA.

An HCFC known as R-22 has been the refrigerant of choice for residential heat pump and air-conditioning systems for more than four decades. Unfortunately for the environment, releases of R-22 that result from system leaks contribute to ozone depletion. In addition, the manufacture of R-22 results in a by-product that contributes significantly to global warming. As the manufacture of R-22 is phased out over the coming years as part of the agreement to end prouction of HCFCs, manufacturers of residential air conditioning systems are beginning to offer equipment that uses ozone-friendly refrigerants. Many homewners may be misinformed about how much longer R-22 will be available to service their central A/C systems and heat pumps. This fact sheet provides information about the transition away from R-22, the future availability of R-22, and the new refrigerants that are replacing R-22. This document also assists consumers in deciding what to consider when purchasing a new A/C system or heat pump, or when having an existing system repaired.
_____________________________________________________
Phaseout Schedule for HCFCs Including R-22

Under the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the U.S. agreed to meet certain obligations by specific dates that will affect the residential heat pump and air-conditioning industry:

January 1, 2004:
In accordance with the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the amount of all HCFCs that can be produced nationwide must be reduced by 35% by 2004. In order to achieve this goal, the U.S. is ceasing production of HCFC-141b, the most ozone-damaging of this class of chemicals, on January 1, 2003. This production ban will greatly reduce nationwide use of HCFCs as a group, making it likely that the 2004 deadline will have a minimal effect on R-22 supplies.

January 1, 2010:
After 2010, chemical manufacturers may still produce R-22 to service existing equipment, but not for use in new equipment. As a result, heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers will only be able to use pre-existing supplies of R-22 to produce new air conditioners and heat pumps. These existing supplies would include R-22 recovered from existing equipment and recycled.

January 1, 2020:
Use of existing refrigerant, including refrigerant that has been recovered and recycled, will be allowed beyond 2020 to service existing systems, but chemical manufacturers will no longer be able to produce R-22 to service existing air conditioners and heat pumps.
 
Here in Mass we are having trouble getting ten seer stuff also, just last week i bought the last ten 2.5ton condensers my american standard dealer had, just want to be prepared for those tight installs that the bigger equiptment won't fit into, we already had a 13 seer condenser come back to the shop because the homeowner flipped out at the sight of how big it was (even though he had the pamphlet with the dimensions on it). I don't know how we are going to fit some of these coils or air handlers in on some of the super tight changeouts we do, new installs won't be as big of a problem, but this stuff is huge
 
2015 Reductions

Some dealers wrongly believe that R-22 for servicing existing
systems will not be affected until 2020. Actually, the EPA is
required to implement additional regulations to reduce the limit
on consumption of ozone-depleting HCFCs such as R-22 by
90% after 2014.

Although the U.S. demand for R-22 for servicing existing
systems is likely to decrease by that date, the available HCFC
allocation will have to be used to supply refrigerants (R-22,
R-124, R-142b, MP39, MP66, HP80, and others) and solvents
(HCFC-225ca, HCFC-225cb).

Most new air conditioning and refrigeration equipment being
installed today is expected to still be in service in 2015, so
building owners and consumers need to take into consideration
the potential for future shortages of HCFC products when
considering installing new R-22 or other HCFC-based
equipment. This is particularly important if systems sold today
are covered by warranties or service contracts.

Although regulations allow for continued production of
R-22 for service through 2019, there is no guarantee that
the quantities that will be produced or made available will
be sufficient to meet U.S. market demand. Individuals and
companies who make claims guaranteeing sufficient
supply of HCFC-22 until 2020 do so at their own risk
 
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