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Abuela

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
(fyi, totally not trying to DIY here -- just trying to see if anyone else can figure out what our HVAC installer can't, so we know which way to turn with this!)

Three years ago, I had a two-zone system put into my house (one for 1st floor, the other for 2nd and attic, in old house). We have two Carrier heat pumps, blowers, and thermidistats.

The first floor system works perfectly, but in the 2nd/3rd floor system (with identical equipment), they've already replaced thermidistat twice and it still has the same problem (though it's no longer under warranty): When the AC is on, the temperature in the room where the thermidistat is mounted is frequently at least 4-5+ degrees lower than the setting or reading. It will be set to 75, it will say it's 76 (so still running) but a thermometer set just a foot away will read 70 or lower. We've confirmed the accuracy of the thermometer we're using several times, our HVAC contractor's professional thermometer confirmed that this was happening, and the fact that we find ourselves freezing confirms the lower temp as well.

And this is just the room where the control is mounted -- one of the other bedrooms has gotten at least 8 degrees cooler than the reading on the thermidistat.

So he's replaced it twice, but we still have the same problem -- but it's not consistent enough to, say, set it at 80 and know it will actually be 75. If we set it at 80 sometimes it will actually be 80, and sometimes it will actually be 72. In the mean time, the 2nd floor system is running like crazy, to the point where the first floor is cooled several degrees lower than where it's set.

This appears to be independent of the fan setting, the humidity control setting, or anything else (or at least anything else we've thought to check). It also only happens with cooling - the temp is always very accurate with heating.

If anyone has any clue as to what might actually be the cause of this, I'd appreciate it. I really don't want to go with a different HVAC company, both because I trust and like these guys, plus I don't want to spend $$ for yet another company to come in and scratch their heads and say, "well... no idea what's going on." I'm hoping instead to start with seeing if anyone else has encountered this, so that I can then talk to my contractor and ask him to consider whatever's been suggested here that makes sense.

Thanks for whatever ideas you might have, or for sharing whatever similar experiences (and solutions!) that you can share.
 
not enough specifics to make a guess, grandma.

and it will be DIY.

I would say call another company, especially if it is not under warranty.
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
not enough specifics to make a guess, grandma.
What specifics would help?

and it will be DIY.
?? Not at all sure if you're saying that I should do this as DIY or if I'm being dishonest. Neither one is happening. My trying to figure out what's going on with my HVAC system is no more indicative of my planning to do it myself than the research I do when I have a strange problem with my car -- it makes me a more educated consumer, not a mechanic!

I would say call another company, especially if it is not under warranty.
I should have been more specific. I have talked to the primary HVAC instructor at the community college where I work, who gave me two other names to call and who called another person himself. No one else has yet been out to look at it, but no one so far has any idea what might be happening, and would likely just put in a new one -- everyone's response so far has basically been some variation on, "I'm not even sure where I'd start looking."

But since this is the third thermidistat in there with this same problem, reluctant to just go for yet another replacement without at least researching it further. I'm hoping that it's some weird quirky thing that might cause someone to say "aha! yeah, that sometimes happens when..." and it can be someone that they can verify and fix. As a professional computer geek, I'm appreciative of the fact that sometimes problems are clearly a "mystery diagnosis" sort of deal until you put it out there to the wide world and get lucky enough to finally come across someone who has seen this before.
 
Is the hole in the wall that the control wiring passes through sealed?
Is there something about the wall that makes it warmer than the room air?

Chances are there is nothing wrong with the thermostat, it is probably just being influenced by something besides just the air temperature in the room. Your thermometer a foot away from the thermostat, or even sitting right on top of the thermostat, just isn't being affected by whatever may be affecting the thermostat.
 
Hmm you could try pulling off the T-stat and stick a thermometer in the hole and see if the temp is the same as what the T-stat says. If so have someone plug the hole so that no air will affect the T-stat and all will be good. Also some T-stats can be set with a offset to help with this kind of thing but I myself would rather fix the issue then cover it up.
 
A couple of things that haven't been mentioned.
Does the stat see the sun through a window so that it is getting extra heat?
Is the stat on wall above a TV or a computer and seeing extra heat from them?
Also like almost everyone has already said,insulate and plug that hole that the stat wire comes through to the stat,maybe putting an unneeded back plate on stst to get it off the wall completely.
 
a couple clarifications and maybe we can actually think this one through.

do you have 2 complete systems, one for first floor and one for the second/attic, or do you have one complete system and then dampers that open and close for the different zones?

what model and brand of thermostat are in the house?
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
A couple of things that haven't been mentioned.
Does the stat see the sun through a window so that it is getting extra heat?
Well, there's a window directly across from it about 15' away, but the shade is closed 99% of the time, and there's a tree out there that shades it a lot of the time as well, plus this happens at night just as much as during the day.

Is the stat on wall above a TV or a computer and seeing extra heat from them?
Nope, just a tiny clock radio. :)

Also like almost everyone has already said,insulate and plug that hole that the stat wire comes through to the stat,maybe putting an unneeded back plate on stst to get it off the wall completely.
Oh man, if it ends up being just that simple, it would be awesome!
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
a couple clarifications and maybe we can actually think this one through.

do you have 2 complete systems, one for first floor and one for the second/attic, or do you have one complete system and then dampers that open and close for the different zones?
It's two completely separate systems, because in order to not have obvious ductwork snaking through my 1930's house, we put one for just the first floor (ducts run through the crawlspace, blower is in the tiny basement), and one for the 2nd and 3rd/attic floor (ducts in the attic/finished attic space, blower in the attic). I have two identical heat pumps sitting outside.

what model and brand of thermostat are in the house?
Carrier, this one: http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/controls/thermidistat.shtml. Contractor installed, though I finally figured out how to program that sucker. In the summer with the AC we generally set fans to ON (it helps with allergies/asthma since we have a big thick fancy filter), and set the humidity control to "cool" for the dehumidify option (you probably have a much better idea about the differences between those settings). However, we've tried about every combination of setting that we can figure out and none of them specifically address this. And I can't figure out a pattern: Last night it was 67 in the master bedroom where the thermostat is mounted, though it was set to and read 75; my granddaughter's room was at least 3-4 degrees cooler than that (had to put an extra blanket over her). Yet tonight, with no significant difference in outside temperature, it reads 74 and it is 74 in there.

(I was hoping for a "tearing hair out" emoticon , but I'll settle for this: :couch: )
 
since your HVAC guy cannot figure it out, the easiest way, at this point, to narrow down issue to thermostat, equipment and/or something else would be to replace that thermostat with a simple Honeywell T87N1000 type thermostat.
 
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Have your contractor switch the two stats and see what happens. If the problem follows the second floor stat when it is moved to the first floor you know you have a problem with the stat. If the problem stays with the second floor with the known good stat from the first floor then you know that you have a location issue.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Have your contractor switch the two stats and see what happens. If the problem follows the second floor stat when it is moved to the first floor you know you have a problem with the stat. If the problem stays with the second floor with the known good stat from the first floor then you know that you have a location issue.
Simple but brilliant! They're coming out here in two weeks for my semi-annual service call, I'll ask if they can do this PLUS do the insulation that was suggested while they're here.
 
Seal the hole behind the stat. Any hot water pipes in that wall?
 
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