Easy to get this one!
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What's wrong with the drain?
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BaldLoonie
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Easy to get this one!
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That AH has to been field modified. Trane AH on upflow has the coil on the bottom. The lineset to the is onthe upper left pannel corner and the drain line is on the lower right pannel corner.
Therefore if it had been just flip (with converting) the lineset would have been in the bottom right coner and the drain line in the upper left corner.
Geee I am all confused
Therefore if it had been just flip (with converting) the lineset would have been in the bottom right coner and the drain line in the upper left corner.
Geee I am all confused
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Does that line set go into the floor ?
[Edited by hvacprodmgr on 10-18-2004 at 05:11 PM]
[Edited by hvacprodmgr on 10-18-2004 at 05:11 PM]
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Nah, the coil has been flipped properly for a downflow application, but that trap sure won't do any good with that vent where it is.bumpkin said:
I wonder, when the installer pulled the coil out and flipped it for the downflow application, did they pull the end plate off the coil and install the correct one?
Bad trap = IAQ problem
I would like to know if any manufacturer endorses the use of these little preformed running traps.
Capping the tee will only mask the problem for a while.
The trap is not deep enough to prevent sewer gas from being sucked through by the blower, since this is a draw-through coil. A dirty filter will exacerbate the problem. It also stinks, summer & winter, if piped to a sanitary sewer.
Infiltration through an uncapped tee will cause water to get sucked over the drain pan and entrain with the airflow.
Water droplets in the ductwork feed mold growth & negate the attempt to dehumidify.
From Trane:
http://www.trane.com/commercial/issues/iaq/iaq5d.asp
"A good place to start is to carefully follow the equipment manufacturer's trapping instructions. The few simple measures discussed above can prevent a wide array of serious problems such as property damage, health concerns and even litigation. By underestimating the importance of proper condensate trapping, you might end up in a trap of your own!"
I would like to know if any manufacturer endorses the use of these little preformed running traps.
Capping the tee will only mask the problem for a while.
The trap is not deep enough to prevent sewer gas from being sucked through by the blower, since this is a draw-through coil. A dirty filter will exacerbate the problem. It also stinks, summer & winter, if piped to a sanitary sewer.
Infiltration through an uncapped tee will cause water to get sucked over the drain pan and entrain with the airflow.
Water droplets in the ductwork feed mold growth & negate the attempt to dehumidify.
From Trane:
http://www.trane.com/commercial/issues/iaq/iaq5d.asp
"A good place to start is to carefully follow the equipment manufacturer's trapping instructions. The few simple measures discussed above can prevent a wide array of serious problems such as property damage, health concerns and even litigation. By underestimating the importance of proper condensate trapping, you might end up in a trap of your own!"
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For the price people pay for new equipment, that installation looks terrible. First...the pvc line running down to the floor has two couplings...unneccessary. Second, no cap on the tee. Third, I don't see a vent after the p-trap. Third, where is the secondary drain line? Fourth, that line set looks like crap. Fifth, I wouldn't use tie straps. When tightened too much...the copper insulation loses it's insulating properties and starts sweating at those points...which looks like about eight different areas...as they all look overtightened. Plus they used white straps. I used (black) straps for a little while until this problem arouse. I wonder if the horizontal drip tray was removed before converting this to a vertical downflow. What about the factory installed baffle?...has it been changed out? And, if this is a four or five ton...have the water diverters been installed? Does this unit go through the floor? Doesn't look like it since I see cement blocks underneath the supply plenum and flex coming off the plenum. Supposing there is no duct work underneath the floor...why is this a vertical downflow? One more thing...why do four out of five of those screws looks different than the other one? Poor workmanship.
no straps
Do you split the Armaflex & put it on AFTER the joints are brazed?
It is supposed to be slipped on before brazing AND the joints glued with an approved adhesive (Armaflex # 520).
It's not hard to compress Armaflex lengthwise to get it out of harm's way before brazing. Be sure to cap the suction line before sliding the Armaflex on. That talc is not good for bearings.
If you must split the insulation, glue it back together. Don't even THINK about using tape!
It's the little things that make the difference between bo-jack & professional work.
I agree, the things wrong with that install are numerous.
I wonder whose apprentice he was/is?
Why use any straps at all?square2round said:
Do you split the Armaflex & put it on AFTER the joints are brazed?
It is supposed to be slipped on before brazing AND the joints glued with an approved adhesive (Armaflex # 520).
It's not hard to compress Armaflex lengthwise to get it out of harm's way before brazing. Be sure to cap the suction line before sliding the Armaflex on. That talc is not good for bearings.
If you must split the insulation, glue it back together. Don't even THINK about using tape!
It's the little things that make the difference between bo-jack & professional work.
I agree, the things wrong with that install are numerous.
I wonder whose apprentice he was/is?
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All I can see is that the Trane Logo on the AH cabinet is upside down...Meaning it was installed upsidedown. The installer probably didn't get what he ordered didn't check the equipment till he got to the job site and just made it work. He is probably pretty proud of himself. Is this what it means by multi-position???
I blame alot of this on management now days they want these jobs done in 1 day and they have one installer and a help out there. The job goes from the salesman to the installer with no superviser to over see it and nobody stands up and says this is not the way this should be done they goes do it and grab that paycheck. In the state of Maryland we are surpose to be licensed but to must companies this means nothing and I often wonder if the state real cares. I haved my licensed reveiwed one time because I charged a customer for a late night repair that was not covered under the contact. I wish the state would start reveiwing more for installation techs and maybe we can weed these hacks out.
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The logo is on upside down because the A/H was converted to a vertical downflow. You can't get away from that. As for the white straps I noted before...I stated that, even though the straps are not intended for this use, they still used white ones when they should have used black. And yes...ALWAYS tape up the end of copper before putting armaflex on. I watched a 16 year veteran of HVAC put armaflex on during a change out without using tape. I couldn't believe it...I looked into the tubing after he put it on and all I saw was white powder inside. It's sad nobody takes pride in their work...or takes the time to do things right the first time. It's a shame how many times my boss pays our employees to go back to the jobs because things weren't done right the first time. Good work ethic is hard to find...and so are good employees.
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Leave the tee on the top for clearing the drain, but plug it during use and add a vent AFTER the trap. And replace that pathetic trap with a REAL 3" P'Trap and you're set to go.
Out here in AZ not a fraction of 1% of installed coils get the secondary drain hooked up. The only secondary drain they know of is the metal one under a horizontal.
When I installed in the rim country of AZ we always hooked up the secondary outlet and ran it over a window (if in a attic) to let the Home Owner see a problem plus that usually prevented it from overflowing into the unit and leaking into the secondary pan (making mold and all sorts of nasty messes).
In Phoenix they never use their brains. It's all about banging in the units as fast as you can. The replacement guys are all just as bad. And when they split a Trane or similar Air Handler to get it up into the attics they never put it together properly which I HATE because it falls apart and out of square when I open the panels.
Damn JAFItes!!!
Out here in AZ not a fraction of 1% of installed coils get the secondary drain hooked up. The only secondary drain they know of is the metal one under a horizontal.
When I installed in the rim country of AZ we always hooked up the secondary outlet and ran it over a window (if in a attic) to let the Home Owner see a problem plus that usually prevented it from overflowing into the unit and leaking into the secondary pan (making mold and all sorts of nasty messes).
In Phoenix they never use their brains. It's all about banging in the units as fast as you can. The replacement guys are all just as bad. And when they split a Trane or similar Air Handler to get it up into the attics they never put it together properly which I HATE because it falls apart and out of square when I open the panels.
Damn JAFItes!!!
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