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New to Canada, new home & forced air... and lots of problems

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Discussion starter · #21 · (Edited by Moderator)
Next thing I need to address is getting the HRV to work with the Infinity control system. No point in having an all singing & dancing system only to leave one part doing it's own thing. After reading the spec's from VanEE and posts on here it appears that my 'Bronze' unit doesn't have the same control logic as the 'Gold'. In that I only have terminals 'B', 'G' and 'R' but no 'Y'. In the current setup 'B' and 'G' go to the bsaic 'bronze' controller. These give off, low and high fan on the HRV. In reading the manuals off both models I find that connecting 'B' to 'G' directly gives high fan and connecting with 3k ohm resistor gives low fan. So, what does the 'R' and 'Y' connections do ? as there present on the VanEE 'Gold' HRV, the Carrier HRV and the Infinity zone control module. I could 'fix' the HRV by piggy backing off the furnace fan but that would only give low speed using a relay & resistor. What I really want is a modulating system controlled by the Infinity controller without having to buy a new HRV.

I've looked at swapping out the VanEE HRV controll card with a Carrier one as there both appear to be made by Vanmar... they have the same connections for inputs and outputs to the fan motor, defrost thermistor & damper. However a new card from Carrier is about $cdn.... so, not something I want to try on the off chance it'll work.

Thanks,
Andy
 
#22 ·
It is Not hooked up to Infinity Controller

AndyD said:
Next thing I need to address is getting the HRV to work with the Infinity control system. No point in having an all singing & dancing system only to leave one part doing it's own thing. by the Infinity controller without having to buy a new HRV.




You can get NIM system.

Network Interface Module and will be able to use Infinity controller. It will communicate with HRV.
Click to expand...
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
21degrees said:
AndyD said:
Next thing I need to address is getting the HRV to work with the Infinity control system. No point in having an all singing & dancing system only to leave one part doing it's own thing. by the Infinity controller without having to buy a new HRV.

You can get NIM system.

Network Interface Module and will be able to use Infinity controller. It will communicate with HRV.
Click to expand...
Correct... it has the same B,G,R,Y connections as the zone control module BUT my HRV only has B,G & R terminals on the control PCB and the existing 'stat' only uses B & G. So, what do R & Y do & will it work with just B & G connected to the Infinity interface module (either zone or NIM).
Click to expand...
 
#24 ·
AndyD said:
21degrees said:
Correct... it has the same B,G,R,Y connections as the zone control module BUT my HRV only has B,G & R terminals on the control PCB and the existing 'stat' only uses B & G. So, what do R & Y do & will it work with just B & G connected to the Infinity interface module (either zone or NIM).
Click to expand...
No you need a little black box with abcd terminals to use Infinity stat. won't work with just B & G
Click to expand...
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
21degrees said:
AndyD said:
No you need a little black box with abcd terminals to use Infinity stat. won't work with just B & G
Click to expand...
Came to that conclusion too.... have found the functions of the other connections this week.

Have an other issue to resolve now, as the HRV is used as the only extract for my bathrooms & the CFM it draws is not up to the task. So, even on high I'm getting alot of condensation on walls & mirror. However, looking at the requirement of CSA F326 for sizing of a unit to the property it's adequate as my house has a total requirement of 120CFM and the 190H flows 189CFM at high speed.

But, a 'standard' bathroom fan flows about 80-100CFM, so, taking into account the HRV on high flows 189CFM, divided by the number of collection points (6) this gives me approx 31CFM at each. I know duct lengths, bends & diameters will effect the actual flow in each room but 31CFM is well below the average and the condensation is physical proof of that.

I've heard this week that the duct guy is back in town (snow has gone now), so I'll be speaking to him about the issues. Do you think that I have a good case to ask for the unit to be replaced with a higher spec one ?

He's not going to be happy about that as it'll cost him $$$

Thanks,
Andy
Click to expand...
 
#26 ·
Why should it cost him if you want an upgrade?
 
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Discussion starter · #28 · (Edited)
beshvac said:
Why should it cost him if you want an upgrade?
Click to expand...
From BC Building Code :

9.32.3.3.(1)(b)
Additional exhaust required in kitchen, bathrooms and water closets can be met with either individual exhaust fans or centrally ducted systems (or both) as long as minimum exhaust ratings are met:Kitchen at 40 L/s and bathrooms at 25 L/s for intermittent fan operation and 10 L/s for continious centrally ducted system

9.32.3.4 Principle Exhaust Fan Control
1) The principle ventilation exhaust fan shall
a) be controlled by an adjustable time control device capable of providing a minimum of two 4-hour operating periods per day, and have a seperate manual switch when serving both the principle ventilation exhaust function and a bathroom or water-closet room exhaust function, or
b) be designed to run continuously


By my rough calculations the available extract from my bathrooms is ~31CFM, BC Building Code requires a minimum of 21.19CFM (10 L/s) for continious extraction or 52.97 CFM (25 L/s) for intermittant. As we were told the system would opperate via a 20min timer (that we have in each room) then the available extraction is intermittant operation and far less than code requires.

(Please tell me if my rough estimation of current extraction rate is sound)

So, issues are :

System does not have intermittant operation to exchange the air in the house, it has to be run in continious mode & the main furnace fan has to be run also to distribute the incoming fresh air. Not what was agreed the system would do prior to instillation. Neither systems are linked at present so both have to be run 24/7 for effective air changes. Thus, an excessive use of energy & not agreed operation.

System appears not to meet BC Building Code for bathroom extraction flow rate for intermittent operation.

Thus, System does not do what we were told it would do at the time we agreed for him to install it.... therefore it is not what we purchased.... therefore it needs to be replaced with a system that does.

Unfortunatly, what origionally was a simple question of getting the HRV to work with my Infinity control system has opened a real can of worms.... what a PITA !
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
beenthere said:
Even if the HRV is connected to the duct system. The furnace fan doesn't have to run.
But it does tend to work better if it does.
Click to expand...
Extract from BC Building Code
9.32.3.8 Required Make-up Air for Principle Exhaust Fan
2)when connected to the return air duct of a forced air heating appliance:
b)iii) have the furnace air circulating fan interconnected with the principle ventilation exhaust fan

So, code say's it does if HRV is connected into furnace return plenum.... they need to run together. Might be reading the pages of the code wrong I have in front of me but it does seem to prity explicit to me.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Can someone please confirm if this is a fair estimation of flow rate :

But, a 'standard' bathroom fan flows about 80-100CFM, so, taking into account the HRV on high flows 189CFM, divided by the number of collection points (6) this gives me approx 31CFM at each. I know duct lengths, bends & diameters will effect the actual flow in each room but 31CFM is well below the average and the condensation is physical proof of that.

Thanks,
Andy
 
#35 ·
What's wrong with using it continuously? You would then be distributing fresh air all the time and not just an occasional blast (from a larger unit that will move more air). Your infinity controller can be set for LOW fan flow all the time and circulate the air. Also, I believe on the latest software revision on the controller the HRV can operate the infinity fan.
 
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#36 ·
beshvac said:
What's wrong with using it continuously? You would then be distributing fresh air all the time and not just an occasional blast (from a larger unit that will move more air). Your infinity controller can be set for LOW fan flow all the time and circulate the air. Also, I believe on the latest software revision on the controller the HRV can operate the infinity fan.
Click to expand...
Read post 24 for that to happen.
 
#37 ·
You have 6 Bathrooms

Their is a formula for sizing HRVs, I just can't post it because you need to get pro status. How big is your house. Do not use that meter you listed. Get a pro to do this. I have never tried it but ran it through my head and it will be hard to do.
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
21degrees said:
Their is a formula for sizing HRVs, I just can't post it because you need to get pro status. How big is your house. Do not use that meter you listed. Get a pro to do this. I have never tried it but ran it through my head and it will be hard to do.
Click to expand...
I have the formula that gives the CSA CFM requirement / room and the unit meets this. Borrowed a meter last night, and checked the flow into a couple of grill points. They both flowed about 35CFM. I've been told the duct guy is back in town so I'll be contacting him next week. There is no other pro here apart from the fridge guy and speaking with him last night he doesn't do the duct side. I also don't want to get into a situation where I'm using 2 pro's against each other. I'd rather gather all the info myself and present a rational case to him. It may be a simple case of he expected the system to operate all the time and didn't explain it to us that well. If so, I'm open to compromise to resolve it.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
beshvac said:
What's wrong with using it continuously? You would then be distributing fresh air all the time and not just an occasional blast (from a larger unit that will move more air). Your infinity controller can be set for LOW fan flow all the time and circulate the air. Also, I believe on the latest software revision on the controller the HRV can operate the infinity fan.
Click to expand...
Read post 28 again.... ;)

We don't want the systems to be running all the time, were trying to minimise energy usage. I have instant electric water heaters and am using LED lighting whereever possible in the house, if not LED I'm using CFL's.
 
#40 ·
21degrees said:
Read post 24 for that to happen.
Click to expand...
I did read 24, know about NIM's (I am a carrier dealer) I was just commenting on there is another way to have the HRV on a timer that will operate the infinity blower.
 
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AndyD
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