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American Std system questions

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steve f

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have an appointment set up with an American Std dealer to come out and do load calcs and give me an estimate, but wanted to get some input here also. I'd like to put together a system that would qualify for the $1500 tax credit. Due to my particular circumstances I'm thinking of putting more into the AC side than the furnace, although I don't want to skimp on the furnace. I really want to have an efficient AC unit, and with the tax credit out there I figure now is a good time to spring for a new system (I happen to have some cash right now to put toward it).

This is for a 1200 s.f. main floor in a 12 year old house that's pretty well insulated. Not sure of the furnace capacity, but the existing Trane XB 2 ton AC has done a good job of cooling. Furnace has been ok, but not really great. I'd need to see some convincing evidence to go larger than 2 tons on the AC since the current unit does ok.

Just from looking at the Amer. Std. website, it looks like the AUX080R942W (Freedom 90 two stage furnaces) might be in the range of what I need in capacity. However, since I'm thinking of either the Allegiance 20 (4A7Z0024) or Allegiance 16 AC unit (4A7A6024), would I need to step up to the AUX2B080AFV3VA (Freedom 90 Variable Speed furnace)?

My needs would be better met by more capacity on the AC side, so if I can meet the criteria for the tax credit on the AC side, I'd like to spend a little less on the furnace side.

I'm just mentioning these particular model furnaces based on what I've read so far on my own, not wedded to them, just wanted to get some input on what would match up well to the Allegiance 20/16 AC units.
 
#2 ·
The IRS hasn't decided how it's going to be implemented yet. So, the tax credit might not apply for 10 years. I hope dealers are letting customers know that they, the dealer, isn't responsible to give them the tax credit.
 
#3 ·
Yes you'd need the variable speed furnace to have any chance of getting the required ratings. Many variable speed matchups still fall short of the required ratings, especially on Trane/American Standard I've noticed. For example, not just for furnaces, if I needed a 4 ton heat pump from Trane/American standard, there aren't any product combos that will give me the required ratings.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Discussion starter · #5 · (Edited by Moderator)
RyanHughes said:
Yes you'd need the variable speed furnace to have any chance of getting the required ratings. Many variable speed matchups still fall short of the required ratings, especially on Trane/American Standard I've noticed. For example, not just for furnaces, if I needed a 4 ton heat pump from Trane/American standard, there aren't any product combos that will give me the required ratings.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I've also got appointments scheduled for Carrier and Bryant (I know they're basically the same, like Trane/Am. Std), and I guess I'll look at Rheem also. I'm hoping a 2 ton ac unit will make it a little easier to put a system togther and get the credit. However, I'm not interested in spending an extra $xk for example, just to get the $1500 credit.
 
#6 ·
The AUX is a single stage, multispeed blower unit. You would need to go AUH,that is the two stage, variable speed blower furnace. If you go for the 20, I would bump to the communicating 3 stage furnace to make it a matched set
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
steve f said:
Thanks for the reply. I've also got appointments scheduled for Carrier and Bryant (I know they're basically the same, like Trane/Am. Std), and I guess I'll look at Rheem also. I'm hoping a 2 ton ac unit will make it a little easier to put a system togther and get the credit. However, I'm not interested in spending an extra $xk for example, just to get the $1500 credit.
Click to expand...

When the credit and you future energy savings are factored together, in most cases it will be economical...unless you have really low electric rates. For example In my home going from an 8 SEER (that was likely lower being a 16 y/o mismatched POS) to a 15.5 SEER should save around $130/year in electricity. Combined with utility rebates and the tax credit for the VS fan and some favorabel pricing... it was worth spending the extra money.
 
#9 ·
Everybody is focused on meting the SEER ratings and such, but nobody has mentioned that accoding to the way it's worded on the energy star homepage, jsut having a qualfying VS fan in even a 80% furnace will allow you to get the 30% or $1500 rebate. It doesn't state that the A/C, heat pump or the furnace itself needs their respective energy requirements. Now you might not get the full $1500, but 30% for just getting the VS fan sure is nice. It's basically a free upgrade to a 2 stage VS furnace no matter hte effeciency rating.

This is the 3rd thread I've stated this, but I haven't heard anyone challenge my interpretation. It looks like a valid "loophole".
 
#11 ·
American Std system question

According to the IRS notice and IRS Form 5695 (Residential Energy Efficient Property Credit) the up to $1500 is a TAX CREDIT. That is a $1 for $1 reduction of your taxes. If you have a $4,000 tax bill it will be reduced by $1,500 if the equipment qualifies etc. Yuo will also be able to carry-over any unused credit balance...ck out the site below and follow the links. www.energytaxincentives.org/consumers/heating-cooling.php
 
#13 ·
I'm not sure if I am wrong or others, but from what i understand of a tax credit is it reduces your taxable income by an amount. Not give you that amount off your final taxes. Say your adjusted income is 45,000 the credit would drop that to 43,500.

I gave my wife a kidney a couple yrs ago and the donor qualifies for a $10000 tax credit for expenses. It reduced the adjusted income by up to $1500, not the end amount owed by $1500.

Just something to verify with your tax man before spending an extra $$$$ for a seer or two just to get the credit.
 
#14 ·
If your tax liability was $1500 and you had $2000 in withholding and were expecting a $500 refund, any tax credit will increase that amount. So in this case you'd get your $500 refund and $1500 more for $2000. The credit cannot be more than your tax liability so if you had a liability of $1000, that's the max you can get from this deal.

If you make so little your tax liability is really $50, that's all you can take, as been said. But then you probably can't afford a top of the line climate control system then!
 
#15 ·
BaldLoonie is correct, but the one part you are missing is that you are allowed to carryforward unused credit to subsequent years. So if you qualify for the full $1,500 and only have a $1,000 liability you can carry forward the remaining $500 to the next year. You may not get it all at one time but you should be able to get the full amount due eventually. The only down side is if you have NO tax liability for the time the credit is in place.(This is the case with a lot of businesses.) Please see the IRS regulation if you do not believe me. A tax credit is a dollar for dollar credit against your taxes owed. IT is NOT a deduction against gross income like mortgage, realestate taxes, or medical expenses.
 
#16 ·
BSAZ said:
BaldLoonie is correct, but the one part you are missing is that you are allowed to carryforward unused credit to subsequent years. So if you qualify for the full $1,500 and only have a $1,000 liability you can carry forward the remaining $500 to the next year. You may not get it all at one time but you should be able to get the full amount due eventually. The only down side is if you have NO tax liability for the time the credit is in place.(This is the case with a lot of businesses.) Please see the IRS regulation if you do not believe me. A tax credit is a dollar for dollar credit against your taxes owed. IT is NOT a deduction against gross income like mortgage, realestate taxes, or medical expenses.
Click to expand...
good to know, thanks for that info. So if you normally get tax returns, then you would want to adjust what you claim for dependents to take less out throughout 2009?
 
#17 ·
Tax credits are money.

Do not confuse credits and deductions.
Credits are funds added to your withholding totals.
Deductions are funds you deduct from your taxable income.
Deductions are nice but credits are real money.

I don't know who does your taxes folks but if you qualify for a credit is is just like adding money to your withholding.

So if you qualify for $800 credit this year,2009, it is treated like $800 added to your withholding. If you were to get a $500 refund you would get $1300.

The carry over part is the other $700 of tax credit not used in 2009, you could earn it for additional energy efficiency in 2010.

Now for the qualifing part:
I just read the requirements and it looks like the 30% credit is for 95% efficient furnaces.
Also a 30% credit for a motor that "uses no more than 2% of the total heating system energy. As defined by DOE Procedure."
And a 30% credit for an a/c with a 16 seer rating.

This changes most of the old quotes I had since they were for 13 SEER a/c and 90% furnaces. I need to requote and see if up sizing the efficiency is a savings with the 30% credit.

And we thought the government was making a "CHANGE"

The total of all credits is capped at $1500 for 2009 & 2010.
 
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